Have any astronauts or cosmonauts died in space?What role did the space race play in reducing the nuclear...

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Have any astronauts or cosmonauts died in space?


What role did the space race play in reducing the nuclear threat during the 1960s?Who was the first Russian in space (not Soviet)?How were the Venera Probe missions received/presented in the Western world during the space race?How widespread was the notion that space travel was impossible prior to the successful launch of Sputnik 1?Did Yuri Gagarin really hear a ticking sound during his journey into outer space?What did Yuri Gagarin do while waiting for his ride?Did the Soviet military in fact fear that the Space Shuttle would be used as an orbital bomber? If so, why?













36















When I lived on the Space Coast I overheard gossip that one or more cosmonauts died in space.



Is there any truth to this?



I’m not asking about deaths from those disasters like Challenger, Columbia, or Apollo 1. I'm asking about death out in actual space.










share|improve this question




















  • 1





    It is not clear what area you asking. Death from natural causes like for example heart attack ? As far as I know, no such deaths are being recorded, because cosmonauts/astronauts are thoroughly screened for their health.

    – rs.29
    yesterday






  • 30





    It's pretty clear what he's asking. At least to me.

    – Italian Philosopher
    yesterday






  • 1





    Why not Columbia?

    – edc65
    13 hours ago






  • 6





    @edc65 The boundary of space, called the Karman line, is generally drawn at 100 km, although the USAF draws it at 50 mi (80 km). Columbia was destroyed on re-entry at about 60 km altitude, while Challenger was destroyed on ascent at 15 km and even the forward momentum of the cabin did not carry it higher than 20 km. Neither were in space by either definition.

    – Iwillnotexist Idonotexist
    11 hours ago






  • 2





    @rs.29 it said space, which is a defined thing that doesn't need to be repeated. Actual space is anything above 100km from sea level. We live in an atmosphere, as opposed to space. This doesn't need to be repeated in the question since it is known and clear. It only mentioned disasters in the clear context of the Challenger, Columbia and Apollo 1 disasters. What is unclear?

    – user32121
    2 hours ago


















36















When I lived on the Space Coast I overheard gossip that one or more cosmonauts died in space.



Is there any truth to this?



I’m not asking about deaths from those disasters like Challenger, Columbia, or Apollo 1. I'm asking about death out in actual space.










share|improve this question




















  • 1





    It is not clear what area you asking. Death from natural causes like for example heart attack ? As far as I know, no such deaths are being recorded, because cosmonauts/astronauts are thoroughly screened for their health.

    – rs.29
    yesterday






  • 30





    It's pretty clear what he's asking. At least to me.

    – Italian Philosopher
    yesterday






  • 1





    Why not Columbia?

    – edc65
    13 hours ago






  • 6





    @edc65 The boundary of space, called the Karman line, is generally drawn at 100 km, although the USAF draws it at 50 mi (80 km). Columbia was destroyed on re-entry at about 60 km altitude, while Challenger was destroyed on ascent at 15 km and even the forward momentum of the cabin did not carry it higher than 20 km. Neither were in space by either definition.

    – Iwillnotexist Idonotexist
    11 hours ago






  • 2





    @rs.29 it said space, which is a defined thing that doesn't need to be repeated. Actual space is anything above 100km from sea level. We live in an atmosphere, as opposed to space. This doesn't need to be repeated in the question since it is known and clear. It only mentioned disasters in the clear context of the Challenger, Columbia and Apollo 1 disasters. What is unclear?

    – user32121
    2 hours ago
















36












36








36








When I lived on the Space Coast I overheard gossip that one or more cosmonauts died in space.



Is there any truth to this?



I’m not asking about deaths from those disasters like Challenger, Columbia, or Apollo 1. I'm asking about death out in actual space.










share|improve this question
















When I lived on the Space Coast I overheard gossip that one or more cosmonauts died in space.



Is there any truth to this?



I’m not asking about deaths from those disasters like Challenger, Columbia, or Apollo 1. I'm asking about death out in actual space.







spaceflight






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited yesterday







NonCreature0714

















asked yesterday









NonCreature0714NonCreature0714

32337




32337








  • 1





    It is not clear what area you asking. Death from natural causes like for example heart attack ? As far as I know, no such deaths are being recorded, because cosmonauts/astronauts are thoroughly screened for their health.

    – rs.29
    yesterday






  • 30





    It's pretty clear what he's asking. At least to me.

    – Italian Philosopher
    yesterday






  • 1





    Why not Columbia?

    – edc65
    13 hours ago






  • 6





    @edc65 The boundary of space, called the Karman line, is generally drawn at 100 km, although the USAF draws it at 50 mi (80 km). Columbia was destroyed on re-entry at about 60 km altitude, while Challenger was destroyed on ascent at 15 km and even the forward momentum of the cabin did not carry it higher than 20 km. Neither were in space by either definition.

    – Iwillnotexist Idonotexist
    11 hours ago






  • 2





    @rs.29 it said space, which is a defined thing that doesn't need to be repeated. Actual space is anything above 100km from sea level. We live in an atmosphere, as opposed to space. This doesn't need to be repeated in the question since it is known and clear. It only mentioned disasters in the clear context of the Challenger, Columbia and Apollo 1 disasters. What is unclear?

    – user32121
    2 hours ago
















  • 1





    It is not clear what area you asking. Death from natural causes like for example heart attack ? As far as I know, no such deaths are being recorded, because cosmonauts/astronauts are thoroughly screened for their health.

    – rs.29
    yesterday






  • 30





    It's pretty clear what he's asking. At least to me.

    – Italian Philosopher
    yesterday






  • 1





    Why not Columbia?

    – edc65
    13 hours ago






  • 6





    @edc65 The boundary of space, called the Karman line, is generally drawn at 100 km, although the USAF draws it at 50 mi (80 km). Columbia was destroyed on re-entry at about 60 km altitude, while Challenger was destroyed on ascent at 15 km and even the forward momentum of the cabin did not carry it higher than 20 km. Neither were in space by either definition.

    – Iwillnotexist Idonotexist
    11 hours ago






  • 2





    @rs.29 it said space, which is a defined thing that doesn't need to be repeated. Actual space is anything above 100km from sea level. We live in an atmosphere, as opposed to space. This doesn't need to be repeated in the question since it is known and clear. It only mentioned disasters in the clear context of the Challenger, Columbia and Apollo 1 disasters. What is unclear?

    – user32121
    2 hours ago










1




1





It is not clear what area you asking. Death from natural causes like for example heart attack ? As far as I know, no such deaths are being recorded, because cosmonauts/astronauts are thoroughly screened for their health.

– rs.29
yesterday





It is not clear what area you asking. Death from natural causes like for example heart attack ? As far as I know, no such deaths are being recorded, because cosmonauts/astronauts are thoroughly screened for their health.

– rs.29
yesterday




30




30





It's pretty clear what he's asking. At least to me.

– Italian Philosopher
yesterday





It's pretty clear what he's asking. At least to me.

– Italian Philosopher
yesterday




1




1





Why not Columbia?

– edc65
13 hours ago





Why not Columbia?

– edc65
13 hours ago




6




6





@edc65 The boundary of space, called the Karman line, is generally drawn at 100 km, although the USAF draws it at 50 mi (80 km). Columbia was destroyed on re-entry at about 60 km altitude, while Challenger was destroyed on ascent at 15 km and even the forward momentum of the cabin did not carry it higher than 20 km. Neither were in space by either definition.

– Iwillnotexist Idonotexist
11 hours ago





@edc65 The boundary of space, called the Karman line, is generally drawn at 100 km, although the USAF draws it at 50 mi (80 km). Columbia was destroyed on re-entry at about 60 km altitude, while Challenger was destroyed on ascent at 15 km and even the forward momentum of the cabin did not carry it higher than 20 km. Neither were in space by either definition.

– Iwillnotexist Idonotexist
11 hours ago




2




2





@rs.29 it said space, which is a defined thing that doesn't need to be repeated. Actual space is anything above 100km from sea level. We live in an atmosphere, as opposed to space. This doesn't need to be repeated in the question since it is known and clear. It only mentioned disasters in the clear context of the Challenger, Columbia and Apollo 1 disasters. What is unclear?

– user32121
2 hours ago







@rs.29 it said space, which is a defined thing that doesn't need to be repeated. Actual space is anything above 100km from sea level. We live in an atmosphere, as opposed to space. This doesn't need to be repeated in the question since it is known and clear. It only mentioned disasters in the clear context of the Challenger, Columbia and Apollo 1 disasters. What is unclear?

– user32121
2 hours ago












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















63














Yes, the three crew members of Soyuz 11: Georgy Dobrovolsky, Vladislav Volkov, and Viktor Patsayev.



On 29 June 1971, their spacecraft undocked from Salyut 1, the first space station, to return to Earth. In the process, however, a breathing ventilation valve between the Soyuz's orbital and descent modules was accidentally loosened. This caused a fatal decompression at ~168km above earth's surface, killing all three cosmonauts within a matter of minutes.



They remain the only humans known to have died in outer space (conventionally defined to begin at 100km above sea level).






share|improve this answer





















  • 3





    Though to be honest "a matter of minutes" could make them to be actually dead only below the 100km point (I'm sorry if my English is weird enough to not express it politely). Either way, taking the Q literally: yes, formally they were yet in space at ~168km, but in the "spirit" of the Q: do we count "died while landing" as "died in space"? I wonder what the OP actually had in mind.

    – seven-phases-max
    yesterday








  • 14





    @seven-phases-max It's not so much "die while landing" as it is they passed away and then autopilot landed them. The cosmonauts spent over 11 minutes in vacuum, so in all likelihood perished well before exiting space - the NASA article states that the valve in question failed 723 seconds after retrofire, but the module did not re-enter the Earth's atmosphere until 1640 seconds. I am unsure know how long exactly they could've survived, but this article states their hearts stopped within 110 seconds.

    – Semaphore
    23 hours ago








  • 2





    Damn... did the landing craft have recordings, something like a blackbox, or is there more info, like communication recordings? Such a death is one of the worst i can imagine, especially because they were the first and probably had no idea what exactly will happen - by the way, wikipedia speaks of 40 seconds until cardiac arrest, and "fatality" within seconds

    – Flying Thunder
    21 hours ago








  • 2





    @seven-phases-max my question was edited for brevity. If you check out the edit history, I make it more clear I mean while in orbit of earth or beyond. However, there is also the needless detail, so I kept the edit.

    – NonCreature0714
    19 hours ago






  • 4





    @seven-phases-max They died due to exposure to an extreme natural vacuum. I think that would count as "dying in space". (Also, their death was qualitatively different then what is caused by uncontrolled decompression in aircraft.)

    – PyRulez
    7 hours ago



















16














The only astronauts who have ever died in space are the crew of Soyuz 11: Georgy Dobrovolsky, Vladislav Volkov, and Viktor Patsayev. This took place in 1971. Perhaps that you are thinking about the legend of the lost cosmonauts.






share|improve this answer





















  • 3





    Hmmm. I'll admit I had heard a variant of that legend myself (and bought it. Silly me)

    – T.E.D.
    19 hours ago











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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









63














Yes, the three crew members of Soyuz 11: Georgy Dobrovolsky, Vladislav Volkov, and Viktor Patsayev.



On 29 June 1971, their spacecraft undocked from Salyut 1, the first space station, to return to Earth. In the process, however, a breathing ventilation valve between the Soyuz's orbital and descent modules was accidentally loosened. This caused a fatal decompression at ~168km above earth's surface, killing all three cosmonauts within a matter of minutes.



They remain the only humans known to have died in outer space (conventionally defined to begin at 100km above sea level).






share|improve this answer





















  • 3





    Though to be honest "a matter of minutes" could make them to be actually dead only below the 100km point (I'm sorry if my English is weird enough to not express it politely). Either way, taking the Q literally: yes, formally they were yet in space at ~168km, but in the "spirit" of the Q: do we count "died while landing" as "died in space"? I wonder what the OP actually had in mind.

    – seven-phases-max
    yesterday








  • 14





    @seven-phases-max It's not so much "die while landing" as it is they passed away and then autopilot landed them. The cosmonauts spent over 11 minutes in vacuum, so in all likelihood perished well before exiting space - the NASA article states that the valve in question failed 723 seconds after retrofire, but the module did not re-enter the Earth's atmosphere until 1640 seconds. I am unsure know how long exactly they could've survived, but this article states their hearts stopped within 110 seconds.

    – Semaphore
    23 hours ago








  • 2





    Damn... did the landing craft have recordings, something like a blackbox, or is there more info, like communication recordings? Such a death is one of the worst i can imagine, especially because they were the first and probably had no idea what exactly will happen - by the way, wikipedia speaks of 40 seconds until cardiac arrest, and "fatality" within seconds

    – Flying Thunder
    21 hours ago








  • 2





    @seven-phases-max my question was edited for brevity. If you check out the edit history, I make it more clear I mean while in orbit of earth or beyond. However, there is also the needless detail, so I kept the edit.

    – NonCreature0714
    19 hours ago






  • 4





    @seven-phases-max They died due to exposure to an extreme natural vacuum. I think that would count as "dying in space". (Also, their death was qualitatively different then what is caused by uncontrolled decompression in aircraft.)

    – PyRulez
    7 hours ago
















63














Yes, the three crew members of Soyuz 11: Georgy Dobrovolsky, Vladislav Volkov, and Viktor Patsayev.



On 29 June 1971, their spacecraft undocked from Salyut 1, the first space station, to return to Earth. In the process, however, a breathing ventilation valve between the Soyuz's orbital and descent modules was accidentally loosened. This caused a fatal decompression at ~168km above earth's surface, killing all three cosmonauts within a matter of minutes.



They remain the only humans known to have died in outer space (conventionally defined to begin at 100km above sea level).






share|improve this answer





















  • 3





    Though to be honest "a matter of minutes" could make them to be actually dead only below the 100km point (I'm sorry if my English is weird enough to not express it politely). Either way, taking the Q literally: yes, formally they were yet in space at ~168km, but in the "spirit" of the Q: do we count "died while landing" as "died in space"? I wonder what the OP actually had in mind.

    – seven-phases-max
    yesterday








  • 14





    @seven-phases-max It's not so much "die while landing" as it is they passed away and then autopilot landed them. The cosmonauts spent over 11 minutes in vacuum, so in all likelihood perished well before exiting space - the NASA article states that the valve in question failed 723 seconds after retrofire, but the module did not re-enter the Earth's atmosphere until 1640 seconds. I am unsure know how long exactly they could've survived, but this article states their hearts stopped within 110 seconds.

    – Semaphore
    23 hours ago








  • 2





    Damn... did the landing craft have recordings, something like a blackbox, or is there more info, like communication recordings? Such a death is one of the worst i can imagine, especially because they were the first and probably had no idea what exactly will happen - by the way, wikipedia speaks of 40 seconds until cardiac arrest, and "fatality" within seconds

    – Flying Thunder
    21 hours ago








  • 2





    @seven-phases-max my question was edited for brevity. If you check out the edit history, I make it more clear I mean while in orbit of earth or beyond. However, there is also the needless detail, so I kept the edit.

    – NonCreature0714
    19 hours ago






  • 4





    @seven-phases-max They died due to exposure to an extreme natural vacuum. I think that would count as "dying in space". (Also, their death was qualitatively different then what is caused by uncontrolled decompression in aircraft.)

    – PyRulez
    7 hours ago














63












63








63







Yes, the three crew members of Soyuz 11: Georgy Dobrovolsky, Vladislav Volkov, and Viktor Patsayev.



On 29 June 1971, their spacecraft undocked from Salyut 1, the first space station, to return to Earth. In the process, however, a breathing ventilation valve between the Soyuz's orbital and descent modules was accidentally loosened. This caused a fatal decompression at ~168km above earth's surface, killing all three cosmonauts within a matter of minutes.



They remain the only humans known to have died in outer space (conventionally defined to begin at 100km above sea level).






share|improve this answer















Yes, the three crew members of Soyuz 11: Georgy Dobrovolsky, Vladislav Volkov, and Viktor Patsayev.



On 29 June 1971, their spacecraft undocked from Salyut 1, the first space station, to return to Earth. In the process, however, a breathing ventilation valve between the Soyuz's orbital and descent modules was accidentally loosened. This caused a fatal decompression at ~168km above earth's surface, killing all three cosmonauts within a matter of minutes.



They remain the only humans known to have died in outer space (conventionally defined to begin at 100km above sea level).







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited yesterday

























answered yesterday









SemaphoreSemaphore

76.2k14287331




76.2k14287331








  • 3





    Though to be honest "a matter of minutes" could make them to be actually dead only below the 100km point (I'm sorry if my English is weird enough to not express it politely). Either way, taking the Q literally: yes, formally they were yet in space at ~168km, but in the "spirit" of the Q: do we count "died while landing" as "died in space"? I wonder what the OP actually had in mind.

    – seven-phases-max
    yesterday








  • 14





    @seven-phases-max It's not so much "die while landing" as it is they passed away and then autopilot landed them. The cosmonauts spent over 11 minutes in vacuum, so in all likelihood perished well before exiting space - the NASA article states that the valve in question failed 723 seconds after retrofire, but the module did not re-enter the Earth's atmosphere until 1640 seconds. I am unsure know how long exactly they could've survived, but this article states their hearts stopped within 110 seconds.

    – Semaphore
    23 hours ago








  • 2





    Damn... did the landing craft have recordings, something like a blackbox, or is there more info, like communication recordings? Such a death is one of the worst i can imagine, especially because they were the first and probably had no idea what exactly will happen - by the way, wikipedia speaks of 40 seconds until cardiac arrest, and "fatality" within seconds

    – Flying Thunder
    21 hours ago








  • 2





    @seven-phases-max my question was edited for brevity. If you check out the edit history, I make it more clear I mean while in orbit of earth or beyond. However, there is also the needless detail, so I kept the edit.

    – NonCreature0714
    19 hours ago






  • 4





    @seven-phases-max They died due to exposure to an extreme natural vacuum. I think that would count as "dying in space". (Also, their death was qualitatively different then what is caused by uncontrolled decompression in aircraft.)

    – PyRulez
    7 hours ago














  • 3





    Though to be honest "a matter of minutes" could make them to be actually dead only below the 100km point (I'm sorry if my English is weird enough to not express it politely). Either way, taking the Q literally: yes, formally they were yet in space at ~168km, but in the "spirit" of the Q: do we count "died while landing" as "died in space"? I wonder what the OP actually had in mind.

    – seven-phases-max
    yesterday








  • 14





    @seven-phases-max It's not so much "die while landing" as it is they passed away and then autopilot landed them. The cosmonauts spent over 11 minutes in vacuum, so in all likelihood perished well before exiting space - the NASA article states that the valve in question failed 723 seconds after retrofire, but the module did not re-enter the Earth's atmosphere until 1640 seconds. I am unsure know how long exactly they could've survived, but this article states their hearts stopped within 110 seconds.

    – Semaphore
    23 hours ago








  • 2





    Damn... did the landing craft have recordings, something like a blackbox, or is there more info, like communication recordings? Such a death is one of the worst i can imagine, especially because they were the first and probably had no idea what exactly will happen - by the way, wikipedia speaks of 40 seconds until cardiac arrest, and "fatality" within seconds

    – Flying Thunder
    21 hours ago








  • 2





    @seven-phases-max my question was edited for brevity. If you check out the edit history, I make it more clear I mean while in orbit of earth or beyond. However, there is also the needless detail, so I kept the edit.

    – NonCreature0714
    19 hours ago






  • 4





    @seven-phases-max They died due to exposure to an extreme natural vacuum. I think that would count as "dying in space". (Also, their death was qualitatively different then what is caused by uncontrolled decompression in aircraft.)

    – PyRulez
    7 hours ago








3




3





Though to be honest "a matter of minutes" could make them to be actually dead only below the 100km point (I'm sorry if my English is weird enough to not express it politely). Either way, taking the Q literally: yes, formally they were yet in space at ~168km, but in the "spirit" of the Q: do we count "died while landing" as "died in space"? I wonder what the OP actually had in mind.

– seven-phases-max
yesterday







Though to be honest "a matter of minutes" could make them to be actually dead only below the 100km point (I'm sorry if my English is weird enough to not express it politely). Either way, taking the Q literally: yes, formally they were yet in space at ~168km, but in the "spirit" of the Q: do we count "died while landing" as "died in space"? I wonder what the OP actually had in mind.

– seven-phases-max
yesterday






14




14





@seven-phases-max It's not so much "die while landing" as it is they passed away and then autopilot landed them. The cosmonauts spent over 11 minutes in vacuum, so in all likelihood perished well before exiting space - the NASA article states that the valve in question failed 723 seconds after retrofire, but the module did not re-enter the Earth's atmosphere until 1640 seconds. I am unsure know how long exactly they could've survived, but this article states their hearts stopped within 110 seconds.

– Semaphore
23 hours ago







@seven-phases-max It's not so much "die while landing" as it is they passed away and then autopilot landed them. The cosmonauts spent over 11 minutes in vacuum, so in all likelihood perished well before exiting space - the NASA article states that the valve in question failed 723 seconds after retrofire, but the module did not re-enter the Earth's atmosphere until 1640 seconds. I am unsure know how long exactly they could've survived, but this article states their hearts stopped within 110 seconds.

– Semaphore
23 hours ago






2




2





Damn... did the landing craft have recordings, something like a blackbox, or is there more info, like communication recordings? Such a death is one of the worst i can imagine, especially because they were the first and probably had no idea what exactly will happen - by the way, wikipedia speaks of 40 seconds until cardiac arrest, and "fatality" within seconds

– Flying Thunder
21 hours ago







Damn... did the landing craft have recordings, something like a blackbox, or is there more info, like communication recordings? Such a death is one of the worst i can imagine, especially because they were the first and probably had no idea what exactly will happen - by the way, wikipedia speaks of 40 seconds until cardiac arrest, and "fatality" within seconds

– Flying Thunder
21 hours ago






2




2





@seven-phases-max my question was edited for brevity. If you check out the edit history, I make it more clear I mean while in orbit of earth or beyond. However, there is also the needless detail, so I kept the edit.

– NonCreature0714
19 hours ago





@seven-phases-max my question was edited for brevity. If you check out the edit history, I make it more clear I mean while in orbit of earth or beyond. However, there is also the needless detail, so I kept the edit.

– NonCreature0714
19 hours ago




4




4





@seven-phases-max They died due to exposure to an extreme natural vacuum. I think that would count as "dying in space". (Also, their death was qualitatively different then what is caused by uncontrolled decompression in aircraft.)

– PyRulez
7 hours ago





@seven-phases-max They died due to exposure to an extreme natural vacuum. I think that would count as "dying in space". (Also, their death was qualitatively different then what is caused by uncontrolled decompression in aircraft.)

– PyRulez
7 hours ago











16














The only astronauts who have ever died in space are the crew of Soyuz 11: Georgy Dobrovolsky, Vladislav Volkov, and Viktor Patsayev. This took place in 1971. Perhaps that you are thinking about the legend of the lost cosmonauts.






share|improve this answer





















  • 3





    Hmmm. I'll admit I had heard a variant of that legend myself (and bought it. Silly me)

    – T.E.D.
    19 hours ago
















16














The only astronauts who have ever died in space are the crew of Soyuz 11: Georgy Dobrovolsky, Vladislav Volkov, and Viktor Patsayev. This took place in 1971. Perhaps that you are thinking about the legend of the lost cosmonauts.






share|improve this answer





















  • 3





    Hmmm. I'll admit I had heard a variant of that legend myself (and bought it. Silly me)

    – T.E.D.
    19 hours ago














16












16








16







The only astronauts who have ever died in space are the crew of Soyuz 11: Georgy Dobrovolsky, Vladislav Volkov, and Viktor Patsayev. This took place in 1971. Perhaps that you are thinking about the legend of the lost cosmonauts.






share|improve this answer















The only astronauts who have ever died in space are the crew of Soyuz 11: Georgy Dobrovolsky, Vladislav Volkov, and Viktor Patsayev. This took place in 1971. Perhaps that you are thinking about the legend of the lost cosmonauts.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited yesterday

























answered yesterday









José Carlos SantosJosé Carlos Santos

1,0801326




1,0801326








  • 3





    Hmmm. I'll admit I had heard a variant of that legend myself (and bought it. Silly me)

    – T.E.D.
    19 hours ago














  • 3





    Hmmm. I'll admit I had heard a variant of that legend myself (and bought it. Silly me)

    – T.E.D.
    19 hours ago








3




3





Hmmm. I'll admit I had heard a variant of that legend myself (and bought it. Silly me)

– T.E.D.
19 hours ago





Hmmm. I'll admit I had heard a variant of that legend myself (and bought it. Silly me)

– T.E.D.
19 hours ago


















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