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It took me a lot of time to make this, pls like. (YouTube Comments #1)

What happens if a wizard reaches level 20 but has no 3rd-level spells that they can use with the Signature Spells feature?

Can a multiclass Wizard copy (and then use) a spell of a higher level than their Wizard level alone would permit?Can an Arcane Trickster Rogue learn all of the wizard spells from the low levels it has slots for?Can a low-level wizard learn and cast higher-level spells?To What Extent Can The Keen Mind Feat Replace a Wizard's Spellbook?At level up, can a sorcerer learn spells of a level granted by slots he has from any class?What level spells can my Arcane Trickster 7/Wizard 1 copy into their spellbook?Wizard's Spell Mastery & Arcane Ward Synergy?Can a Wizard cast a spell as a ritual without physically accessing a spellbook?By using Misty Step with Spell Mastery, can a wizard effectively increase their travel speed?Is there a way to increase the maximum number of spells a level 20 wizard, druid or cleric can prepare?

4

$begingroup$

At level 20, a wizard gains the Signature Spells feature. This allows them to choose two 3rd-level spells, and from then on they always have those spells prepared and can cast them once each without using a spell slot between rests.

What happens though, if a wizard reaches level 20 and does not have two 3rd-level spells in their spellbook for some reason? Is the ability suspended until they scribe two such spells in their spellbook?

dnd-5e spells wizard

share|improve this question

edited 2 hours ago

V2Blast

23.4k375147

asked 2 hours ago

Allan MillsAllan Mills

83913

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

4

$begingroup$

At level 20, a wizard gains the Signature Spells feature. This allows them to choose two 3rd-level spells, and from then on they always have those spells prepared and can cast them once each without using a spell slot between rests.

What happens though, if a wizard reaches level 20 and does not have two 3rd-level spells in their spellbook for some reason? Is the ability suspended until they scribe two such spells in their spellbook?

dnd-5e spells wizard

share|improve this question

edited 2 hours ago

V2Blast

23.4k375147

asked 2 hours ago

Allan MillsAllan Mills

83913

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

At level 20, a wizard gains the Signature Spells feature. This allows them to choose two 3rd-level spells, and from then on they always have those spells prepared and can cast them once each without using a spell slot between rests.

What happens though, if a wizard reaches level 20 and does not have two 3rd-level spells in their spellbook for some reason? Is the ability suspended until they scribe two such spells in their spellbook?

dnd-5e spells wizard

share|improve this question

edited 2 hours ago

V2Blast

23.4k375147

asked 2 hours ago

Allan MillsAllan Mills

83913

$endgroup$

share|improve this question

edited 2 hours ago

V2Blast

23.4k375147

asked 2 hours ago

Allan MillsAllan Mills

83913

share|improve this question

edited 2 hours ago

V2Blast

23.4k375147

asked 2 hours ago

Allan MillsAllan Mills

83913

edited 2 hours ago

V2Blast

23.4k375147

edited 2 hours ago

V2Blast

23.4k375147

asked 2 hours ago

Allan MillsAllan Mills

83913

asked 2 hours ago

Allan MillsAllan Mills

83913

3 Answers
3

active

oldest

votes

7

$begingroup$

You Gain Nothing

When you level up, you resolve all the aspects that go with leveling up at that time (though DM's often postpone the actual process of leveling up to the end of the adventure day).

If you have no qualifying spells to choose from, you don't meet the requirements for the feature, which by RAW means they would lose the ability to select spells for this feature. Since Signature Spells are selected when you level up, gaining 3rd level spells later won't be able to retroactively meet the requirements.

share|improve this answer

answered 2 hours ago

Mwr247Mwr247

2,0031020

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
  $endgroup$
  – KRyan
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @kryan while I would never enforce this rule myself, the question respondent is well within their right to enforce it, and I've certainly known GMs who would expect the player to manage their spells accordingly so they don't miss out on a feature like this. I do agree in that the answer would feel more complete if the respondent stated what their position is and why they feel that way based on their experience playing or GMing, or just basic human decency.
  $endgroup$
  – lightcat
  2 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I'm coding up a 5th edition character generator and I ran into a crash when I had a wizard hit level 20 since I hadn't picked up any third level spells and hadn't handled the case of a character not having any (I was just grabbing random spells at each level and just never took any third level spells). I believe it is unlikely that a character would actually hit level 20 without 3rd level spells since haste, dispel magic and counterspell are three of the best spells in the game, but I was wondering in terms of actual rules how to handle such a case.
  $endgroup$
  – Allan Mills
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

2

$begingroup$

The Signature Spells feature says:

When you reach 20th level, you gain mastery over two powerful spells and can cast them with little effort. Choose two 3rd-level wizard spells in your spellbook as your signature spells. You always have these spells prepared, they don’t count against the number of spells you have prepared, and you can cast each of them once at 3rd level without expending a spell slot. When you do so, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

If you want to cast either spell at a higher level, you must expend a spell slot as normal.

You gain the benefits of leveling up as soon as you level up, unless the DM house-rules otherwise. The feature requires you to choose two 3rd-level spells in your spellbook as your signature spells; if you are unable to do so, you simply don't get the benefit of the feature. This choice can not be made at some later point.

That said, this is a very unlikely situation; the only way it would be possible is if you picked only 1st- or 2nd-level spells when you gained your 5th and 6th wizard levels, and continued picking only non-3rd-level spells as you continued leveling up. (Or, I suppose, if your spellbook was somehow lost/destroyed after your 6th wizard level and you never chose a 3rd-level spell after that.)

Obviously, this would be a terrible idea, as you'd get nothing from the capstone feature.

share|improve this answer

edited 7 mins ago

answered 2 hours ago

V2BlastV2Blast

23.4k375147

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Losing a spellbook after 6th would also do it, far more plausibly. Anyway, since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
  $endgroup$
  – KRyan
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @KRyan: I figured it was pretty self-evident to OP that it would be a bad idea to set themselves up such that they'd get nothing from the feature... Don't really need to be an expert to figure that out. Edited anyway.
  $endgroup$
  – V2Blast
  2 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

-2

$begingroup$

The situation is impossible without the player causing it

For this wizard:

Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free.

In the unlikely event that the wizard had no 3rd level spells in their spellbooks, it would have required a deliberate decision not to ever choose two 3rd level spells so as to meet the requirement for Signature Spells.

share|improve this answer

edited 51 mins ago

SevenSidedDie♦

208k31668945

answered 2 hours ago

Dale MDale M

107k21277476

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  It's worth noting that there are situations that can arise in which a Wizard may arrive at 20th level with no 3rd level spells; situations that are beyond their control. If a Wizard prepared no 3rd level spells one morning, loses their spellbook or has it destroyed, then levels up, they fall into the scenario as described by the OP.
  $endgroup$
  – Nesbitto
  5 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

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7

$begingroup$

You Gain Nothing

When you level up, you resolve all the aspects that go with leveling up at that time (though DM's often postpone the actual process of leveling up to the end of the adventure day).

If you have no qualifying spells to choose from, you don't meet the requirements for the feature, which by RAW means they would lose the ability to select spells for this feature. Since Signature Spells are selected when you level up, gaining 3rd level spells later won't be able to retroactively meet the requirements.

share|improve this answer

answered 2 hours ago

Mwr247Mwr247

2,0031020

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
  $endgroup$
  – KRyan
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @kryan while I would never enforce this rule myself, the question respondent is well within their right to enforce it, and I've certainly known GMs who would expect the player to manage their spells accordingly so they don't miss out on a feature like this. I do agree in that the answer would feel more complete if the respondent stated what their position is and why they feel that way based on their experience playing or GMing, or just basic human decency.
  $endgroup$
  – lightcat
  2 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I'm coding up a 5th edition character generator and I ran into a crash when I had a wizard hit level 20 since I hadn't picked up any third level spells and hadn't handled the case of a character not having any (I was just grabbing random spells at each level and just never took any third level spells). I believe it is unlikely that a character would actually hit level 20 without 3rd level spells since haste, dispel magic and counterspell are three of the best spells in the game, but I was wondering in terms of actual rules how to handle such a case.
  $endgroup$
  – Allan Mills
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

7

$begingroup$

You Gain Nothing

When you level up, you resolve all the aspects that go with leveling up at that time (though DM's often postpone the actual process of leveling up to the end of the adventure day).

If you have no qualifying spells to choose from, you don't meet the requirements for the feature, which by RAW means they would lose the ability to select spells for this feature. Since Signature Spells are selected when you level up, gaining 3rd level spells later won't be able to retroactively meet the requirements.

share|improve this answer

answered 2 hours ago

Mwr247Mwr247

2,0031020

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
  $endgroup$
  – KRyan
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @kryan while I would never enforce this rule myself, the question respondent is well within their right to enforce it, and I've certainly known GMs who would expect the player to manage their spells accordingly so they don't miss out on a feature like this. I do agree in that the answer would feel more complete if the respondent stated what their position is and why they feel that way based on their experience playing or GMing, or just basic human decency.
  $endgroup$
  – lightcat
  2 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I'm coding up a 5th edition character generator and I ran into a crash when I had a wizard hit level 20 since I hadn't picked up any third level spells and hadn't handled the case of a character not having any (I was just grabbing random spells at each level and just never took any third level spells). I believe it is unlikely that a character would actually hit level 20 without 3rd level spells since haste, dispel magic and counterspell are three of the best spells in the game, but I was wondering in terms of actual rules how to handle such a case.
  $endgroup$
  – Allan Mills
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

You Gain Nothing

When you level up, you resolve all the aspects that go with leveling up at that time (though DM's often postpone the actual process of leveling up to the end of the adventure day).

If you have no qualifying spells to choose from, you don't meet the requirements for the feature, which by RAW means they would lose the ability to select spells for this feature. Since Signature Spells are selected when you level up, gaining 3rd level spells later won't be able to retroactively meet the requirements.

share|improve this answer

answered 2 hours ago

Mwr247Mwr247

2,0031020

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

answered 2 hours ago

Mwr247Mwr247

2,0031020

answered 2 hours ago

Mwr247Mwr247

2,0031020

answered 2 hours ago

Mwr247Mwr247

2,0031020

2

$begingroup$

The Signature Spells feature says:

When you reach 20th level, you gain mastery over two powerful spells and can cast them with little effort. Choose two 3rd-level wizard spells in your spellbook as your signature spells. You always have these spells prepared, they don’t count against the number of spells you have prepared, and you can cast each of them once at 3rd level without expending a spell slot. When you do so, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

If you want to cast either spell at a higher level, you must expend a spell slot as normal.

You gain the benefits of leveling up as soon as you level up, unless the DM house-rules otherwise. The feature requires you to choose two 3rd-level spells in your spellbook as your signature spells; if you are unable to do so, you simply don't get the benefit of the feature. This choice can not be made at some later point.

That said, this is a very unlikely situation; the only way it would be possible is if you picked only 1st- or 2nd-level spells when you gained your 5th and 6th wizard levels, and continued picking only non-3rd-level spells as you continued leveling up. (Or, I suppose, if your spellbook was somehow lost/destroyed after your 6th wizard level and you never chose a 3rd-level spell after that.)

Obviously, this would be a terrible idea, as you'd get nothing from the capstone feature.

share|improve this answer

edited 7 mins ago

answered 2 hours ago

V2BlastV2Blast

23.4k375147

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Losing a spellbook after 6th would also do it, far more plausibly. Anyway, since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
  $endgroup$
  – KRyan
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @KRyan: I figured it was pretty self-evident to OP that it would be a bad idea to set themselves up such that they'd get nothing from the feature... Don't really need to be an expert to figure that out. Edited anyway.
  $endgroup$
  – V2Blast
  2 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

2

$begingroup$

The Signature Spells feature says:

When you reach 20th level, you gain mastery over two powerful spells and can cast them with little effort. Choose two 3rd-level wizard spells in your spellbook as your signature spells. You always have these spells prepared, they don’t count against the number of spells you have prepared, and you can cast each of them once at 3rd level without expending a spell slot. When you do so, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

If you want to cast either spell at a higher level, you must expend a spell slot as normal.

You gain the benefits of leveling up as soon as you level up, unless the DM house-rules otherwise. The feature requires you to choose two 3rd-level spells in your spellbook as your signature spells; if you are unable to do so, you simply don't get the benefit of the feature. This choice can not be made at some later point.

That said, this is a very unlikely situation; the only way it would be possible is if you picked only 1st- or 2nd-level spells when you gained your 5th and 6th wizard levels, and continued picking only non-3rd-level spells as you continued leveling up. (Or, I suppose, if your spellbook was somehow lost/destroyed after your 6th wizard level and you never chose a 3rd-level spell after that.)

Obviously, this would be a terrible idea, as you'd get nothing from the capstone feature.

share|improve this answer

edited 7 mins ago

answered 2 hours ago

V2BlastV2Blast

23.4k375147

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Losing a spellbook after 6th would also do it, far more plausibly. Anyway, since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
  $endgroup$
  – KRyan
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @KRyan: I figured it was pretty self-evident to OP that it would be a bad idea to set themselves up such that they'd get nothing from the feature... Don't really need to be an expert to figure that out. Edited anyway.
  $endgroup$
  – V2Blast
  2 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

The Signature Spells feature says:

When you reach 20th level, you gain mastery over two powerful spells and can cast them with little effort. Choose two 3rd-level wizard spells in your spellbook as your signature spells. You always have these spells prepared, they don’t count against the number of spells you have prepared, and you can cast each of them once at 3rd level without expending a spell slot. When you do so, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

If you want to cast either spell at a higher level, you must expend a spell slot as normal.

You gain the benefits of leveling up as soon as you level up, unless the DM house-rules otherwise. The feature requires you to choose two 3rd-level spells in your spellbook as your signature spells; if you are unable to do so, you simply don't get the benefit of the feature. This choice can not be made at some later point.

That said, this is a very unlikely situation; the only way it would be possible is if you picked only 1st- or 2nd-level spells when you gained your 5th and 6th wizard levels, and continued picking only non-3rd-level spells as you continued leveling up. (Or, I suppose, if your spellbook was somehow lost/destroyed after your 6th wizard level and you never chose a 3rd-level spell after that.)

Obviously, this would be a terrible idea, as you'd get nothing from the capstone feature.

share|improve this answer

edited 7 mins ago

answered 2 hours ago

V2BlastV2Blast

23.4k375147

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

edited 7 mins ago

answered 2 hours ago

V2BlastV2Blast

23.4k375147

answered 2 hours ago

V2BlastV2Blast

23.4k375147

answered 2 hours ago

V2BlastV2Blast

23.4k375147

-2

$begingroup$

The situation is impossible without the player causing it

For this wizard:

Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free.

In the unlikely event that the wizard had no 3rd level spells in their spellbooks, it would have required a deliberate decision not to ever choose two 3rd level spells so as to meet the requirement for Signature Spells.

share|improve this answer

edited 51 mins ago

SevenSidedDie♦

208k31668945

answered 2 hours ago

Dale MDale M

107k21277476

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  It's worth noting that there are situations that can arise in which a Wizard may arrive at 20th level with no 3rd level spells; situations that are beyond their control. If a Wizard prepared no 3rd level spells one morning, loses their spellbook or has it destroyed, then levels up, they fall into the scenario as described by the OP.
  $endgroup$
  – Nesbitto
  5 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

-2

$begingroup$

The situation is impossible without the player causing it

For this wizard:

Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free.

In the unlikely event that the wizard had no 3rd level spells in their spellbooks, it would have required a deliberate decision not to ever choose two 3rd level spells so as to meet the requirement for Signature Spells.

share|improve this answer

edited 51 mins ago

SevenSidedDie♦

208k31668945

answered 2 hours ago

Dale MDale M

107k21277476

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  It's worth noting that there are situations that can arise in which a Wizard may arrive at 20th level with no 3rd level spells; situations that are beyond their control. If a Wizard prepared no 3rd level spells one morning, loses their spellbook or has it destroyed, then levels up, they fall into the scenario as described by the OP.
  $endgroup$
  – Nesbitto
  5 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

The situation is impossible without the player causing it

For this wizard:

Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free.

In the unlikely event that the wizard had no 3rd level spells in their spellbooks, it would have required a deliberate decision not to ever choose two 3rd level spells so as to meet the requirement for Signature Spells.

share|improve this answer

edited 51 mins ago

SevenSidedDie♦

208k31668945

answered 2 hours ago

Dale MDale M

107k21277476

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

edited 51 mins ago

SevenSidedDie♦

208k31668945

answered 2 hours ago

Dale MDale M

107k21277476

edited 51 mins ago

SevenSidedDie♦

208k31668945

edited 51 mins ago

SevenSidedDie♦

208k31668945

answered 2 hours ago

Dale MDale M

107k21277476

answered 2 hours ago

Dale MDale M

107k21277476