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What's the oldest plausible frozen specimen for a Jurassic Park style story-line?

How big a black hole is needed for this story?What's a plausible explanation for a space faring civilization with a “16th century” culture?What's the longest plausible orbital period for a habitable planet with a 3:2 spin-orbit resonance?Is this a realistic creation story for a matriarchal society?What's a good name for this technology?What's necessary for this stratified, flood-prone city to be plausible?Creating a Cold Super-Venus for a storyWhat's the most plausible way to bio-engineer an underground ecosystem, without photosynthesis, to produce oxygen?Designing a plausible Corinthian-style modern combat helmetWhat might be a plausible explanation for the drastic lowering of global temperatures?

2

$begingroup$

We've found all sorts of interesting stuff in arctic ice & permafrost around the world.

Bacteria & the like far older than the more media friendly mammoth specimens have been found, living bacteria has been found in ice cores as old as 420,000 years.

Obviously I'm not thinking about living specimens

The ebb & flow of the ice & permafrost through our various ice ages are probably a factor in what might plausibly have survived unthawed to be found & by extension where (not all dinosaurs lived exclusively in warm climates) & when any particular species was found.

So is a frozen dinosaur in any way plausible, how about a neanderthal?

science-based reality-check climate

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

Pelinore

asked 1 hour ago

PelinorePelinore

2,440520

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

2

$begingroup$

We've found all sorts of interesting stuff in arctic ice & permafrost around the world.

Bacteria & the like far older than the more media friendly mammoth specimens have been found, living bacteria has been found in ice cores as old as 420,000 years.

Obviously I'm not thinking about living specimens

The ebb & flow of the ice & permafrost through our various ice ages are probably a factor in what might plausibly have survived unthawed to be found & by extension where (not all dinosaurs lived exclusively in warm climates) & when any particular species was found.

So is a frozen dinosaur in any way plausible, how about a neanderthal?

science-based reality-check climate

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

Pelinore

asked 1 hour ago

PelinorePelinore

2,440520

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

We've found all sorts of interesting stuff in arctic ice & permafrost around the world.

Bacteria & the like far older than the more media friendly mammoth specimens have been found, living bacteria has been found in ice cores as old as 420,000 years.

Obviously I'm not thinking about living specimens

The ebb & flow of the ice & permafrost through our various ice ages are probably a factor in what might plausibly have survived unthawed to be found & by extension where (not all dinosaurs lived exclusively in warm climates) & when any particular species was found.

So is a frozen dinosaur in any way plausible, how about a neanderthal?

science-based reality-check climate

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

Pelinore

asked 1 hour ago

PelinorePelinore

2,440520

$endgroup$

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

Pelinore

asked 1 hour ago

PelinorePelinore

2,440520

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

Pelinore

asked 1 hour ago

PelinorePelinore

2,440520

asked 1 hour ago

PelinorePelinore

2,440520

asked 1 hour ago

PelinorePelinore

2,440520

2 Answers
2

active

oldest

votes

3

$begingroup$

Permanent ice caps have not been a constant during Earth history. For example we know that in the past the poles were free from ice.

Therefore the oldest possible frozen sample is as old as the oldest permanent ice caps or frozen terrain on Earth. Anything that got frozen before that time has been thawed in the meantime.

share|improve this answer

answered 1 hour ago

L.Dutch♦L.Dutch

84.9k28201415

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Damn good point, guess I was wrong about that being a question for another day, it actually goes to the core of the question.. hmm, the question may need a rejig, or that might just be the answer ~ 35 million years ago was the last time the ice caps weren't there.
  $endgroup$
  – Pelinore
  1 hour ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Dinasaurs are off the table then ~ they went extinct 65 million years ago, neanderthals are a mere 40 thousand years ago so they're plausible.
  $endgroup$
  – Pelinore
  1 hour ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Pelinore: The Antarctic ice sheet formed about 35 to 45 million years ago. The Greenland ice cap is less than 20 million years old. Anyway, the Mesozoic ended 66 mya, so neither ice sheet can contain frozen non-avian dinosaurs.
  $endgroup$
  – AlexP
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Ah! given their distribution neanderthals are also off the menu, oh well.
  $endgroup$
  – Pelinore
  52 mins ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Pelinore its still possible for neanderthal, that range is just our best estimate based on fossil and artifact remains, of course, it will not preclude the random lost straggler. It will be an earlier neanderthal though the ice cap maximum would have kept them too far from existing ice caps.
  $endgroup$
  – John
  35 mins ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

1

$begingroup$

The oldest frozen specimens would likely be roughly 15-30 million years old and would be whatever critters were on Antarctica during the Oligocene or early Miocene.

Around that time, Antarctica finished its split from other land masses with the opening of the Drake Passage between it and South America, allowing the Antarctic Circumpolar Current to begin keeping warmer waters away and permanently freezing the continent into what we know today.

Until it fully froze, conifer forests and steppes covered the continent, and if Antarctic fauna were anything like the rest of the world it was dominated by a mix of critters that were vaguely similar to today's large mammals, rodents, and sea life.

So, it looks like your frozen Oligocene Park will probably be filled with odd-looking pine trees and horses and mice with weird snouts. Not as awe-inspiring as a T-Rex, but still pretty cool.

---

As for finding frozen Neanderthals, it's possible but unlikely. In order to be found frozen, they would have needed to die in an area of permafrost that has been unchanged for the last 40-50,000 years, and their known range doesn't have many options for that. However, we did find a 5,000 year old mummy frozen in the Alps, so anything's possible.

share|improve this answer

edited 11 mins ago

answered 23 mins ago

GiterGiter

13.7k53241

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Skimming the images produced by a oligocene animals Google search I think I could live with that :)
  $endgroup$
  – Pelinore
  15 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Pelinore: I'd imagine visiting Oligocene Park would give roughly the same feeling of the early explorers of Australia.
  $endgroup$
  – Giter
  7 mins ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

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3

$begingroup$

Permanent ice caps have not been a constant during Earth history. For example we know that in the past the poles were free from ice.

Therefore the oldest possible frozen sample is as old as the oldest permanent ice caps or frozen terrain on Earth. Anything that got frozen before that time has been thawed in the meantime.

share|improve this answer

answered 1 hour ago

L.Dutch♦L.Dutch

84.9k28201415

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Damn good point, guess I was wrong about that being a question for another day, it actually goes to the core of the question.. hmm, the question may need a rejig, or that might just be the answer ~ 35 million years ago was the last time the ice caps weren't there.
  $endgroup$
  – Pelinore
  1 hour ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Dinasaurs are off the table then ~ they went extinct 65 million years ago, neanderthals are a mere 40 thousand years ago so they're plausible.
  $endgroup$
  – Pelinore
  1 hour ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Pelinore: The Antarctic ice sheet formed about 35 to 45 million years ago. The Greenland ice cap is less than 20 million years old. Anyway, the Mesozoic ended 66 mya, so neither ice sheet can contain frozen non-avian dinosaurs.
  $endgroup$
  – AlexP
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Ah! given their distribution neanderthals are also off the menu, oh well.
  $endgroup$
  – Pelinore
  52 mins ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Pelinore its still possible for neanderthal, that range is just our best estimate based on fossil and artifact remains, of course, it will not preclude the random lost straggler. It will be an earlier neanderthal though the ice cap maximum would have kept them too far from existing ice caps.
  $endgroup$
  – John
  35 mins ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

3

$begingroup$

Permanent ice caps have not been a constant during Earth history. For example we know that in the past the poles were free from ice.

Therefore the oldest possible frozen sample is as old as the oldest permanent ice caps or frozen terrain on Earth. Anything that got frozen before that time has been thawed in the meantime.

share|improve this answer

answered 1 hour ago

L.Dutch♦L.Dutch

84.9k28201415

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Damn good point, guess I was wrong about that being a question for another day, it actually goes to the core of the question.. hmm, the question may need a rejig, or that might just be the answer ~ 35 million years ago was the last time the ice caps weren't there.
  $endgroup$
  – Pelinore
  1 hour ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Dinasaurs are off the table then ~ they went extinct 65 million years ago, neanderthals are a mere 40 thousand years ago so they're plausible.
  $endgroup$
  – Pelinore
  1 hour ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Pelinore: The Antarctic ice sheet formed about 35 to 45 million years ago. The Greenland ice cap is less than 20 million years old. Anyway, the Mesozoic ended 66 mya, so neither ice sheet can contain frozen non-avian dinosaurs.
  $endgroup$
  – AlexP
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Ah! given their distribution neanderthals are also off the menu, oh well.
  $endgroup$
  – Pelinore
  52 mins ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Pelinore its still possible for neanderthal, that range is just our best estimate based on fossil and artifact remains, of course, it will not preclude the random lost straggler. It will be an earlier neanderthal though the ice cap maximum would have kept them too far from existing ice caps.
  $endgroup$
  – John
  35 mins ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

Permanent ice caps have not been a constant during Earth history. For example we know that in the past the poles were free from ice.

Therefore the oldest possible frozen sample is as old as the oldest permanent ice caps or frozen terrain on Earth. Anything that got frozen before that time has been thawed in the meantime.

share|improve this answer

answered 1 hour ago

L.Dutch♦L.Dutch

84.9k28201415

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

answered 1 hour ago

L.Dutch♦L.Dutch

84.9k28201415

answered 1 hour ago

L.Dutch♦L.Dutch

84.9k28201415

answered 1 hour ago

L.Dutch♦L.Dutch

84.9k28201415

1

$begingroup$

The oldest frozen specimens would likely be roughly 15-30 million years old and would be whatever critters were on Antarctica during the Oligocene or early Miocene.

Around that time, Antarctica finished its split from other land masses with the opening of the Drake Passage between it and South America, allowing the Antarctic Circumpolar Current to begin keeping warmer waters away and permanently freezing the continent into what we know today.

Until it fully froze, conifer forests and steppes covered the continent, and if Antarctic fauna were anything like the rest of the world it was dominated by a mix of critters that were vaguely similar to today's large mammals, rodents, and sea life.

So, it looks like your frozen Oligocene Park will probably be filled with odd-looking pine trees and horses and mice with weird snouts. Not as awe-inspiring as a T-Rex, but still pretty cool.

---

As for finding frozen Neanderthals, it's possible but unlikely. In order to be found frozen, they would have needed to die in an area of permafrost that has been unchanged for the last 40-50,000 years, and their known range doesn't have many options for that. However, we did find a 5,000 year old mummy frozen in the Alps, so anything's possible.

share|improve this answer

edited 11 mins ago

answered 23 mins ago

GiterGiter

13.7k53241

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Skimming the images produced by a oligocene animals Google search I think I could live with that :)
  $endgroup$
  – Pelinore
  15 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Pelinore: I'd imagine visiting Oligocene Park would give roughly the same feeling of the early explorers of Australia.
  $endgroup$
  – Giter
  7 mins ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

1

$begingroup$

The oldest frozen specimens would likely be roughly 15-30 million years old and would be whatever critters were on Antarctica during the Oligocene or early Miocene.

Around that time, Antarctica finished its split from other land masses with the opening of the Drake Passage between it and South America, allowing the Antarctic Circumpolar Current to begin keeping warmer waters away and permanently freezing the continent into what we know today.

Until it fully froze, conifer forests and steppes covered the continent, and if Antarctic fauna were anything like the rest of the world it was dominated by a mix of critters that were vaguely similar to today's large mammals, rodents, and sea life.

So, it looks like your frozen Oligocene Park will probably be filled with odd-looking pine trees and horses and mice with weird snouts. Not as awe-inspiring as a T-Rex, but still pretty cool.

---

As for finding frozen Neanderthals, it's possible but unlikely. In order to be found frozen, they would have needed to die in an area of permafrost that has been unchanged for the last 40-50,000 years, and their known range doesn't have many options for that. However, we did find a 5,000 year old mummy frozen in the Alps, so anything's possible.

share|improve this answer

edited 11 mins ago

answered 23 mins ago

GiterGiter

13.7k53241

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Skimming the images produced by a oligocene animals Google search I think I could live with that :)
  $endgroup$
  – Pelinore
  15 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Pelinore: I'd imagine visiting Oligocene Park would give roughly the same feeling of the early explorers of Australia.
  $endgroup$
  – Giter
  7 mins ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

The oldest frozen specimens would likely be roughly 15-30 million years old and would be whatever critters were on Antarctica during the Oligocene or early Miocene.

Around that time, Antarctica finished its split from other land masses with the opening of the Drake Passage between it and South America, allowing the Antarctic Circumpolar Current to begin keeping warmer waters away and permanently freezing the continent into what we know today.

Until it fully froze, conifer forests and steppes covered the continent, and if Antarctic fauna were anything like the rest of the world it was dominated by a mix of critters that were vaguely similar to today's large mammals, rodents, and sea life.

So, it looks like your frozen Oligocene Park will probably be filled with odd-looking pine trees and horses and mice with weird snouts. Not as awe-inspiring as a T-Rex, but still pretty cool.

---

As for finding frozen Neanderthals, it's possible but unlikely. In order to be found frozen, they would have needed to die in an area of permafrost that has been unchanged for the last 40-50,000 years, and their known range doesn't have many options for that. However, we did find a 5,000 year old mummy frozen in the Alps, so anything's possible.

share|improve this answer

edited 11 mins ago

answered 23 mins ago

GiterGiter

13.7k53241

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

edited 11 mins ago

answered 23 mins ago

GiterGiter

13.7k53241

answered 23 mins ago

GiterGiter

13.7k53241

answered 23 mins ago

GiterGiter

13.7k53241