How do I figure out the right pronunciation for transitions?Anybody know the reason for the ‘Star Wars’...

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How do I figure out the right pronunciation for transitions?


Anybody know the reason for the ‘Star Wars’ themed STARs into KATL?How am I supposed to track to KOSAX on the OLIVI 4W out of EDFM?Are pilots expected to keep an ear out for conflicting authorizations?How does ATC deal with a crew who is not capable of a clear pronunciation?Why did the MSA for Taipei (RTCP) change?How to guess the actual name of the SID, waypoint, etc., if you have never seen it when told by ATC?How works the system of frequency for aircraft commercial AirlineFlying VFR in uncontrolled airspace, what to do if one spots an apparently out-of-control fire on the ground?How is a flight routed from the last waypoint of a STAR to final?Why would a pilot on final to a towered airport not speak up when ATC clears another aircraft to land on the same runway, without mentioning them?What is the purpose of the hold at JNC on the Grand Junction Seven SID?













5












$begingroup$


For example, the CNERY transition,* how exactly is this pronounced? On the VATSIM community, it seems there's a huge debate on what this is called. Some people say CONNERY, and some people say SCENERY. I personally say SCENERY since it makes more sense, but what is the most proper one? And is there a place where we can find pronunciation of such things?



Like another one is SCTRR transition which some people say SCOOTER, some people say SCATTER.



* CNERY transition is part of KLAX's DOTSS TWO DEPARTURE.










share|improve this question









New contributor




RepeaterCreeper is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Hi and welcome. I recommend editing the question to include where those transitions are located, it will help get you the answers.
    $endgroup$
    – ymb1
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to aviation.SE! You mentioned that you've heard the real-world pronunciation, so I'm not sure what additional information you're asking for. Are you looking for some sort of pronunciation guide for waypoint names? And the tour may be helpful if you're new to StackExchange.
    $endgroup$
    – Pondlife
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I think @IAmNoobPilot is asking for the correct one, maybe doesn't know that both are correct and used?
    $endgroup$
    – Jihyun
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Jihyun Oh both is correct? thank you!
    $endgroup$
    – RepeaterCreeper
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've only taken classes at uni so far, but for my pilot and leadership studies in rotc whenever case studies with such terms come up as long as it's widely accepted, understandable, and sensible they are usable. this is only on my personal experience, that's why i framed my earlier comment as a question because there are far more knowledgeable people who will know this for sure ;)
    $endgroup$
    – Jihyun
    3 mins ago
















5












$begingroup$


For example, the CNERY transition,* how exactly is this pronounced? On the VATSIM community, it seems there's a huge debate on what this is called. Some people say CONNERY, and some people say SCENERY. I personally say SCENERY since it makes more sense, but what is the most proper one? And is there a place where we can find pronunciation of such things?



Like another one is SCTRR transition which some people say SCOOTER, some people say SCATTER.



* CNERY transition is part of KLAX's DOTSS TWO DEPARTURE.










share|improve this question









New contributor




RepeaterCreeper is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Hi and welcome. I recommend editing the question to include where those transitions are located, it will help get you the answers.
    $endgroup$
    – ymb1
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to aviation.SE! You mentioned that you've heard the real-world pronunciation, so I'm not sure what additional information you're asking for. Are you looking for some sort of pronunciation guide for waypoint names? And the tour may be helpful if you're new to StackExchange.
    $endgroup$
    – Pondlife
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I think @IAmNoobPilot is asking for the correct one, maybe doesn't know that both are correct and used?
    $endgroup$
    – Jihyun
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Jihyun Oh both is correct? thank you!
    $endgroup$
    – RepeaterCreeper
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've only taken classes at uni so far, but for my pilot and leadership studies in rotc whenever case studies with such terms come up as long as it's widely accepted, understandable, and sensible they are usable. this is only on my personal experience, that's why i framed my earlier comment as a question because there are far more knowledgeable people who will know this for sure ;)
    $endgroup$
    – Jihyun
    3 mins ago














5












5








5





$begingroup$


For example, the CNERY transition,* how exactly is this pronounced? On the VATSIM community, it seems there's a huge debate on what this is called. Some people say CONNERY, and some people say SCENERY. I personally say SCENERY since it makes more sense, but what is the most proper one? And is there a place where we can find pronunciation of such things?



Like another one is SCTRR transition which some people say SCOOTER, some people say SCATTER.



* CNERY transition is part of KLAX's DOTSS TWO DEPARTURE.










share|improve this question









New contributor




RepeaterCreeper is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




For example, the CNERY transition,* how exactly is this pronounced? On the VATSIM community, it seems there's a huge debate on what this is called. Some people say CONNERY, and some people say SCENERY. I personally say SCENERY since it makes more sense, but what is the most proper one? And is there a place where we can find pronunciation of such things?



Like another one is SCTRR transition which some people say SCOOTER, some people say SCATTER.



* CNERY transition is part of KLAX's DOTSS TWO DEPARTURE.







radio-communications sid-star






share|improve this question









New contributor




RepeaterCreeper is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




RepeaterCreeper is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 3 hours ago







RepeaterCreeper













New contributor




RepeaterCreeper is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 16 hours ago









RepeaterCreeperRepeaterCreeper

283




283




New contributor




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Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





RepeaterCreeper is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






RepeaterCreeper is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Hi and welcome. I recommend editing the question to include where those transitions are located, it will help get you the answers.
    $endgroup$
    – ymb1
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to aviation.SE! You mentioned that you've heard the real-world pronunciation, so I'm not sure what additional information you're asking for. Are you looking for some sort of pronunciation guide for waypoint names? And the tour may be helpful if you're new to StackExchange.
    $endgroup$
    – Pondlife
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I think @IAmNoobPilot is asking for the correct one, maybe doesn't know that both are correct and used?
    $endgroup$
    – Jihyun
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Jihyun Oh both is correct? thank you!
    $endgroup$
    – RepeaterCreeper
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've only taken classes at uni so far, but for my pilot and leadership studies in rotc whenever case studies with such terms come up as long as it's widely accepted, understandable, and sensible they are usable. this is only on my personal experience, that's why i framed my earlier comment as a question because there are far more knowledgeable people who will know this for sure ;)
    $endgroup$
    – Jihyun
    3 mins ago














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Hi and welcome. I recommend editing the question to include where those transitions are located, it will help get you the answers.
    $endgroup$
    – ymb1
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to aviation.SE! You mentioned that you've heard the real-world pronunciation, so I'm not sure what additional information you're asking for. Are you looking for some sort of pronunciation guide for waypoint names? And the tour may be helpful if you're new to StackExchange.
    $endgroup$
    – Pondlife
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I think @IAmNoobPilot is asking for the correct one, maybe doesn't know that both are correct and used?
    $endgroup$
    – Jihyun
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Jihyun Oh both is correct? thank you!
    $endgroup$
    – RepeaterCreeper
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've only taken classes at uni so far, but for my pilot and leadership studies in rotc whenever case studies with such terms come up as long as it's widely accepted, understandable, and sensible they are usable. this is only on my personal experience, that's why i framed my earlier comment as a question because there are far more knowledgeable people who will know this for sure ;)
    $endgroup$
    – Jihyun
    3 mins ago








1




1




$begingroup$
Hi and welcome. I recommend editing the question to include where those transitions are located, it will help get you the answers.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
15 hours ago




$begingroup$
Hi and welcome. I recommend editing the question to include where those transitions are located, it will help get you the answers.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
15 hours ago












$begingroup$
Welcome to aviation.SE! You mentioned that you've heard the real-world pronunciation, so I'm not sure what additional information you're asking for. Are you looking for some sort of pronunciation guide for waypoint names? And the tour may be helpful if you're new to StackExchange.
$endgroup$
– Pondlife
15 hours ago




$begingroup$
Welcome to aviation.SE! You mentioned that you've heard the real-world pronunciation, so I'm not sure what additional information you're asking for. Are you looking for some sort of pronunciation guide for waypoint names? And the tour may be helpful if you're new to StackExchange.
$endgroup$
– Pondlife
15 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
I think @IAmNoobPilot is asking for the correct one, maybe doesn't know that both are correct and used?
$endgroup$
– Jihyun
15 hours ago




$begingroup$
I think @IAmNoobPilot is asking for the correct one, maybe doesn't know that both are correct and used?
$endgroup$
– Jihyun
15 hours ago












$begingroup$
@Jihyun Oh both is correct? thank you!
$endgroup$
– RepeaterCreeper
15 hours ago




$begingroup$
@Jihyun Oh both is correct? thank you!
$endgroup$
– RepeaterCreeper
15 hours ago












$begingroup$
I've only taken classes at uni so far, but for my pilot and leadership studies in rotc whenever case studies with such terms come up as long as it's widely accepted, understandable, and sensible they are usable. this is only on my personal experience, that's why i framed my earlier comment as a question because there are far more knowledgeable people who will know this for sure ;)
$endgroup$
– Jihyun
3 mins ago




$begingroup$
I've only taken classes at uni so far, but for my pilot and leadership studies in rotc whenever case studies with such terms come up as long as it's widely accepted, understandable, and sensible they are usable. this is only on my personal experience, that's why i framed my earlier comment as a question because there are far more knowledgeable people who will know this for sure ;)
$endgroup$
– Jihyun
3 mins ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















4












$begingroup$

It would be nice if there were an authoritative, canonical, source for these sorts of waypoints, but sadly, I don't think one exists. I say that because I hear controllers sometimes using a different set of vowels or syllable emphasis "today" than they did "yesterday". If there were a single "right" way to verbalize CNERY or SCTRR, I'd expect ATC to have them all down. But in plenty of cases beyond those two, it remains unclear.



For example, the JFRYE arrival into Dallas -- is it the "Jeffrey" or the "J-Fry" arrival? You hear both from Ft Worth Center all the time.



My conclusion: no cannonical source exists.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    2












    $begingroup$

    If a word was used to choose a pronounceable 5-letter designator (name-code), it would not be documented. (There are many pronounceable name-codes that don't mean a thing – in both English and the local language.)



    ICAO Annex 11 (Air Traffic Services) Appendix 2 says:




    4.2 In printed and coded communications, only the coded designator or the selected name-code shall be used to refer to a significant point.




    So don't expect to find any mention other than the 5-letter code, which has to be pronounceable for some fixes:



    For the USA, Order 8260.19H says:




    Pronounceable fix names. Except as stated in paragraph 2-10-5.a(3), all fix names serving any IFP must be pronounceable.




    Which Annex 11 points out as:




    Where a significant point is required at a position not marked by the site of a radio navigation aid, the significant point shall be designated by a unique five-letter pronounceable "name-code". This name-code designator then serves as the name as well as the coded designator of the significant point.




    XKCDQ would not be a pronounceable name, but CNERY would. If you did not comprehend whatever name the controller used, say you're flying in a new area with little traffic around you (prior comms to/from other traffic help you in anticipating things like that), you can simply ask the controller, "Say again in phonetic alphabet."



    Sometimes the airspace designers come up with funny sequences though, e.g., see: Anybody know the reason for the ‘Star Wars’ themed STARs into KATL?





    (All emphasis mine.)






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      +1 for pointing out that requesting the spelling is always a valid request
      $endgroup$
      – Florian
      1 hour ago



















    0












    $begingroup$

    There is no single "correct" pronunciation for fix/waypoint names. The only rule is that the pronunciations must be unambiguous with respect to all other nearby names. For CNERY, jf one controller says "Scenery" and another says "Connery", and neither is ambiguous, then both are arguably correct. Heck, I'd even accept "Canary"; maybe the local fixes are named after birds but CNARY was already in use elsewhere.



    As a practical matter, pilots should read things back the same way the controller said them. The point of communication is to be understood, so as long as that's happening, the details aren't important.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      4












      $begingroup$

      It would be nice if there were an authoritative, canonical, source for these sorts of waypoints, but sadly, I don't think one exists. I say that because I hear controllers sometimes using a different set of vowels or syllable emphasis "today" than they did "yesterday". If there were a single "right" way to verbalize CNERY or SCTRR, I'd expect ATC to have them all down. But in plenty of cases beyond those two, it remains unclear.



      For example, the JFRYE arrival into Dallas -- is it the "Jeffrey" or the "J-Fry" arrival? You hear both from Ft Worth Center all the time.



      My conclusion: no cannonical source exists.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        4












        $begingroup$

        It would be nice if there were an authoritative, canonical, source for these sorts of waypoints, but sadly, I don't think one exists. I say that because I hear controllers sometimes using a different set of vowels or syllable emphasis "today" than they did "yesterday". If there were a single "right" way to verbalize CNERY or SCTRR, I'd expect ATC to have them all down. But in plenty of cases beyond those two, it remains unclear.



        For example, the JFRYE arrival into Dallas -- is it the "Jeffrey" or the "J-Fry" arrival? You hear both from Ft Worth Center all the time.



        My conclusion: no cannonical source exists.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          4












          4








          4





          $begingroup$

          It would be nice if there were an authoritative, canonical, source for these sorts of waypoints, but sadly, I don't think one exists. I say that because I hear controllers sometimes using a different set of vowels or syllable emphasis "today" than they did "yesterday". If there were a single "right" way to verbalize CNERY or SCTRR, I'd expect ATC to have them all down. But in plenty of cases beyond those two, it remains unclear.



          For example, the JFRYE arrival into Dallas -- is it the "Jeffrey" or the "J-Fry" arrival? You hear both from Ft Worth Center all the time.



          My conclusion: no cannonical source exists.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          It would be nice if there were an authoritative, canonical, source for these sorts of waypoints, but sadly, I don't think one exists. I say that because I hear controllers sometimes using a different set of vowels or syllable emphasis "today" than they did "yesterday". If there were a single "right" way to verbalize CNERY or SCTRR, I'd expect ATC to have them all down. But in plenty of cases beyond those two, it remains unclear.



          For example, the JFRYE arrival into Dallas -- is it the "Jeffrey" or the "J-Fry" arrival? You hear both from Ft Worth Center all the time.



          My conclusion: no cannonical source exists.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 15 hours ago









          Ralph JRalph J

          28.3k785147




          28.3k785147























              2












              $begingroup$

              If a word was used to choose a pronounceable 5-letter designator (name-code), it would not be documented. (There are many pronounceable name-codes that don't mean a thing – in both English and the local language.)



              ICAO Annex 11 (Air Traffic Services) Appendix 2 says:




              4.2 In printed and coded communications, only the coded designator or the selected name-code shall be used to refer to a significant point.




              So don't expect to find any mention other than the 5-letter code, which has to be pronounceable for some fixes:



              For the USA, Order 8260.19H says:




              Pronounceable fix names. Except as stated in paragraph 2-10-5.a(3), all fix names serving any IFP must be pronounceable.




              Which Annex 11 points out as:




              Where a significant point is required at a position not marked by the site of a radio navigation aid, the significant point shall be designated by a unique five-letter pronounceable "name-code". This name-code designator then serves as the name as well as the coded designator of the significant point.




              XKCDQ would not be a pronounceable name, but CNERY would. If you did not comprehend whatever name the controller used, say you're flying in a new area with little traffic around you (prior comms to/from other traffic help you in anticipating things like that), you can simply ask the controller, "Say again in phonetic alphabet."



              Sometimes the airspace designers come up with funny sequences though, e.g., see: Anybody know the reason for the ‘Star Wars’ themed STARs into KATL?





              (All emphasis mine.)






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                +1 for pointing out that requesting the spelling is always a valid request
                $endgroup$
                – Florian
                1 hour ago
















              2












              $begingroup$

              If a word was used to choose a pronounceable 5-letter designator (name-code), it would not be documented. (There are many pronounceable name-codes that don't mean a thing – in both English and the local language.)



              ICAO Annex 11 (Air Traffic Services) Appendix 2 says:




              4.2 In printed and coded communications, only the coded designator or the selected name-code shall be used to refer to a significant point.




              So don't expect to find any mention other than the 5-letter code, which has to be pronounceable for some fixes:



              For the USA, Order 8260.19H says:




              Pronounceable fix names. Except as stated in paragraph 2-10-5.a(3), all fix names serving any IFP must be pronounceable.




              Which Annex 11 points out as:




              Where a significant point is required at a position not marked by the site of a radio navigation aid, the significant point shall be designated by a unique five-letter pronounceable "name-code". This name-code designator then serves as the name as well as the coded designator of the significant point.




              XKCDQ would not be a pronounceable name, but CNERY would. If you did not comprehend whatever name the controller used, say you're flying in a new area with little traffic around you (prior comms to/from other traffic help you in anticipating things like that), you can simply ask the controller, "Say again in phonetic alphabet."



              Sometimes the airspace designers come up with funny sequences though, e.g., see: Anybody know the reason for the ‘Star Wars’ themed STARs into KATL?





              (All emphasis mine.)






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                +1 for pointing out that requesting the spelling is always a valid request
                $endgroup$
                – Florian
                1 hour ago














              2












              2








              2





              $begingroup$

              If a word was used to choose a pronounceable 5-letter designator (name-code), it would not be documented. (There are many pronounceable name-codes that don't mean a thing – in both English and the local language.)



              ICAO Annex 11 (Air Traffic Services) Appendix 2 says:




              4.2 In printed and coded communications, only the coded designator or the selected name-code shall be used to refer to a significant point.




              So don't expect to find any mention other than the 5-letter code, which has to be pronounceable for some fixes:



              For the USA, Order 8260.19H says:




              Pronounceable fix names. Except as stated in paragraph 2-10-5.a(3), all fix names serving any IFP must be pronounceable.




              Which Annex 11 points out as:




              Where a significant point is required at a position not marked by the site of a radio navigation aid, the significant point shall be designated by a unique five-letter pronounceable "name-code". This name-code designator then serves as the name as well as the coded designator of the significant point.




              XKCDQ would not be a pronounceable name, but CNERY would. If you did not comprehend whatever name the controller used, say you're flying in a new area with little traffic around you (prior comms to/from other traffic help you in anticipating things like that), you can simply ask the controller, "Say again in phonetic alphabet."



              Sometimes the airspace designers come up with funny sequences though, e.g., see: Anybody know the reason for the ‘Star Wars’ themed STARs into KATL?





              (All emphasis mine.)






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$



              If a word was used to choose a pronounceable 5-letter designator (name-code), it would not be documented. (There are many pronounceable name-codes that don't mean a thing – in both English and the local language.)



              ICAO Annex 11 (Air Traffic Services) Appendix 2 says:




              4.2 In printed and coded communications, only the coded designator or the selected name-code shall be used to refer to a significant point.




              So don't expect to find any mention other than the 5-letter code, which has to be pronounceable for some fixes:



              For the USA, Order 8260.19H says:




              Pronounceable fix names. Except as stated in paragraph 2-10-5.a(3), all fix names serving any IFP must be pronounceable.




              Which Annex 11 points out as:




              Where a significant point is required at a position not marked by the site of a radio navigation aid, the significant point shall be designated by a unique five-letter pronounceable "name-code". This name-code designator then serves as the name as well as the coded designator of the significant point.




              XKCDQ would not be a pronounceable name, but CNERY would. If you did not comprehend whatever name the controller used, say you're flying in a new area with little traffic around you (prior comms to/from other traffic help you in anticipating things like that), you can simply ask the controller, "Say again in phonetic alphabet."



              Sometimes the airspace designers come up with funny sequences though, e.g., see: Anybody know the reason for the ‘Star Wars’ themed STARs into KATL?





              (All emphasis mine.)







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited 1 hour ago

























              answered 3 hours ago









              ymb1ymb1

              65.8k6210349




              65.8k6210349












              • $begingroup$
                +1 for pointing out that requesting the spelling is always a valid request
                $endgroup$
                – Florian
                1 hour ago


















              • $begingroup$
                +1 for pointing out that requesting the spelling is always a valid request
                $endgroup$
                – Florian
                1 hour ago
















              $begingroup$
              +1 for pointing out that requesting the spelling is always a valid request
              $endgroup$
              – Florian
              1 hour ago




              $begingroup$
              +1 for pointing out that requesting the spelling is always a valid request
              $endgroup$
              – Florian
              1 hour ago











              0












              $begingroup$

              There is no single "correct" pronunciation for fix/waypoint names. The only rule is that the pronunciations must be unambiguous with respect to all other nearby names. For CNERY, jf one controller says "Scenery" and another says "Connery", and neither is ambiguous, then both are arguably correct. Heck, I'd even accept "Canary"; maybe the local fixes are named after birds but CNARY was already in use elsewhere.



              As a practical matter, pilots should read things back the same way the controller said them. The point of communication is to be understood, so as long as that's happening, the details aren't important.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                0












                $begingroup$

                There is no single "correct" pronunciation for fix/waypoint names. The only rule is that the pronunciations must be unambiguous with respect to all other nearby names. For CNERY, jf one controller says "Scenery" and another says "Connery", and neither is ambiguous, then both are arguably correct. Heck, I'd even accept "Canary"; maybe the local fixes are named after birds but CNARY was already in use elsewhere.



                As a practical matter, pilots should read things back the same way the controller said them. The point of communication is to be understood, so as long as that's happening, the details aren't important.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  There is no single "correct" pronunciation for fix/waypoint names. The only rule is that the pronunciations must be unambiguous with respect to all other nearby names. For CNERY, jf one controller says "Scenery" and another says "Connery", and neither is ambiguous, then both are arguably correct. Heck, I'd even accept "Canary"; maybe the local fixes are named after birds but CNARY was already in use elsewhere.



                  As a practical matter, pilots should read things back the same way the controller said them. The point of communication is to be understood, so as long as that's happening, the details aren't important.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  There is no single "correct" pronunciation for fix/waypoint names. The only rule is that the pronunciations must be unambiguous with respect to all other nearby names. For CNERY, jf one controller says "Scenery" and another says "Connery", and neither is ambiguous, then both are arguably correct. Heck, I'd even accept "Canary"; maybe the local fixes are named after birds but CNARY was already in use elsewhere.



                  As a practical matter, pilots should read things back the same way the controller said them. The point of communication is to be understood, so as long as that's happening, the details aren't important.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 14 hours ago









                  StephenSStephenS

                  3,3501423




                  3,3501423






















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