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two subject complements in passive form?
Passive voice and prepositional phrasesVerbs that can be changed into passive contruction?Being chosen, however, is probably not enough, passive voice?Verbs that can give a sentence passive like construction or meaningConfused “Complements and adjuncts” in these sentences “Did I hear this correct?” & “Am I reading this right?”The complements of linking verbsany example of an “active voice” verb used in a “verb-ed” form as a modifierPassive voice suggestions in grammarly (To be, or not to be)Passive voice in english grammarPassive voice + additional verb phrase
Hi I am English learner.
Recently, I have a question.
There is a sentence:
He was selected chairman.
On this passive form, I think the word selected is a subject complement.
Therefore, He is subject and was is verb and selected is complement and chairman is complement as well.
Can we have two subject complements in one sentence?
On the other hand, Some people say that He is subject and was selected is verb and chairman is complement. But I don't agree this idea. Because I think that 'Was' is only verb and 'Selected' is complement.
FYI, someone say that selected chairman is adjective phrase.
What do you think that idea?
I searched this information in my country web but I couldn't find the information satisfying.
Please help me out. Thank you
passive-voice complements
New contributor
add a comment |
Hi I am English learner.
Recently, I have a question.
There is a sentence:
He was selected chairman.
On this passive form, I think the word selected is a subject complement.
Therefore, He is subject and was is verb and selected is complement and chairman is complement as well.
Can we have two subject complements in one sentence?
On the other hand, Some people say that He is subject and was selected is verb and chairman is complement. But I don't agree this idea. Because I think that 'Was' is only verb and 'Selected' is complement.
FYI, someone say that selected chairman is adjective phrase.
What do you think that idea?
I searched this information in my country web but I couldn't find the information satisfying.
Please help me out. Thank you
passive-voice complements
New contributor
1
Welcome to the English Language Learners StackExchange! Thank you for setting out your question clearly with your thoughts on the matter and being specific about what you are trying to understand.
– SamBC
2 hours ago
He was selected [x] is a passive construction. We selected him as the winner. He was selected the winner [by us].
– Lambie
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Hi I am English learner.
Recently, I have a question.
There is a sentence:
He was selected chairman.
On this passive form, I think the word selected is a subject complement.
Therefore, He is subject and was is verb and selected is complement and chairman is complement as well.
Can we have two subject complements in one sentence?
On the other hand, Some people say that He is subject and was selected is verb and chairman is complement. But I don't agree this idea. Because I think that 'Was' is only verb and 'Selected' is complement.
FYI, someone say that selected chairman is adjective phrase.
What do you think that idea?
I searched this information in my country web but I couldn't find the information satisfying.
Please help me out. Thank you
passive-voice complements
New contributor
Hi I am English learner.
Recently, I have a question.
There is a sentence:
He was selected chairman.
On this passive form, I think the word selected is a subject complement.
Therefore, He is subject and was is verb and selected is complement and chairman is complement as well.
Can we have two subject complements in one sentence?
On the other hand, Some people say that He is subject and was selected is verb and chairman is complement. But I don't agree this idea. Because I think that 'Was' is only verb and 'Selected' is complement.
FYI, someone say that selected chairman is adjective phrase.
What do you think that idea?
I searched this information in my country web but I couldn't find the information satisfying.
Please help me out. Thank you
passive-voice complements
passive-voice complements
New contributor
New contributor
edited 2 hours ago
SamBC
5,995426
5,995426
New contributor
asked 4 hours ago
user90294user90294
112
112
New contributor
New contributor
1
Welcome to the English Language Learners StackExchange! Thank you for setting out your question clearly with your thoughts on the matter and being specific about what you are trying to understand.
– SamBC
2 hours ago
He was selected [x] is a passive construction. We selected him as the winner. He was selected the winner [by us].
– Lambie
1 hour ago
add a comment |
1
Welcome to the English Language Learners StackExchange! Thank you for setting out your question clearly with your thoughts on the matter and being specific about what you are trying to understand.
– SamBC
2 hours ago
He was selected [x] is a passive construction. We selected him as the winner. He was selected the winner [by us].
– Lambie
1 hour ago
1
1
Welcome to the English Language Learners StackExchange! Thank you for setting out your question clearly with your thoughts on the matter and being specific about what you are trying to understand.
– SamBC
2 hours ago
Welcome to the English Language Learners StackExchange! Thank you for setting out your question clearly with your thoughts on the matter and being specific about what you are trying to understand.
– SamBC
2 hours ago
He was selected [x] is a passive construction. We selected him as the winner. He was selected the winner [by us].
– Lambie
1 hour ago
He was selected [x] is a passive construction. We selected him as the winner. He was selected the winner [by us].
– Lambie
1 hour ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Select is a verb. Selected is both its past participle and its simple past form. The simple past passive is formed with the past tense of to be and the simple past of the verb being passivised. Thus, the simple past passive of "X selects him as chairman" is
He was selected chairman
So, we can see that the principal verb of your example sentence can be selected. Could it also be was?
Was and were are used with other verbs to form the past progressive or the past simple passive. They are also used with adjectives and nouns to show that the adjective or noun applied in the past, and depending on emphasis or context it might or might not still apply now. Selected can be an adjective, but it's not usually applied to a person that way. However, it can be applied to a position:
The chairman of the organisation is a selected position
He is the selected chairman
So there is the possibility of selected not being a verb here. If it were an adjective, it would be modifying chairman, rather than being a complement itself. 'Selected chairman' would become a noun phrase.
However, if that were a noun phrase, chairman would not be a mass (uncountable) noun; it is countable, and so it needs a quantifier or article. Either a or the could be appropriate, depending on circumstance, but as an example:
He was the selected chairman.
Chairman is still a noun in the situation where selected is a verb, but in that case is referring to the position as an abstract, and so it does not require an article.
In neither case is selected a complement. It is either the principal verb, or it is an adjective applied to chairman.
It is possible to make the intention of selected as a verb more explicit with one or more extra words:
He was selected as chairman
He was selected for the role of chairman
Essentially, however, how to parse this depends on context. "At the meeting, he was selected chairman" clearly has selected as the principal verb. It is describing an action that took place at the specified time. In other contexts, it may be otherwise.
add a comment |
He was selected chairman.
The verb "selected" is part of a complement.
Here, "was" is the matrix clause predicator, which has the subordinate past-participial clause "selected chairman" as its complement. Within the complement clause, "chairman" is subject complement.
Note: A matrix clause is a clause within which a subordinate clause is embedded, e.g. in "I think she said he was ill", the matrix clause is "She said he was ill" in which the subordinate clause "he was ill" is embedded.
I think that interpretation/explanation might be more useful to someone studying English as a linguist, rather than someone trying to learn to use the language. I mean, it's fascinating, and for all I know correct, but you don't hear about matrix clauses much when you're just learning a language for practical purposes.
– SamBC
1 hour ago
1
@SamBC I would say that the OP is pretty much into syntax, and hence should be aware of basic terminology like "matrix clause" (a clause that contains a subordinate clause).
– BillJ
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Names are set by social conventions. If we called dogs "cats" and cats "dogs," there would be no difference in objective reality or in our understanding of objective reality.
Language about language is a set of naming conventions.
He was selected by them
and
They selected him
mean exactly the same thing. We traditionally describe the difference in form by saying that the verb in the first sentence is in the passive voice and the verb in the second sentence is in the active voice. That is, the verb in the first voice is a verbal phrase consisting of some form of the verb "be" and a perfect participle.
But, in English, participles can be used as adjectives. So we could describe English without reference to the passive voice by expanding the definition of subject complements instead. There would be nothing illogical in that. It would be just like calling dogs "cats" and cats "dogs." There are, however, two points to note.
If you call dogs "cats" and cats "dogs" and no one else does, you will not be understood by others, nor will you understand others. You are ignoring the social, extra-individual aspect of language.
Furthermore, if you sometimes call dogs "cats" and cats "dogs" and sometimes call dogs "dogs" and cats "cats," you will be apt to confuse yourself and certain to confuse others.
If we chose to describe English by dispensing with the passive voice and by expanding the definition of subject complements, it would make no sense to refer to the passive form of subject complements because "passive" would have no meaning. In the traditional grammar, we analyze
He was selected chairman
as "He" is the subject, "was selected" is a passive verb, and "chairman" is a nominal predicate, a type of subject complement.
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
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active
oldest
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Select is a verb. Selected is both its past participle and its simple past form. The simple past passive is formed with the past tense of to be and the simple past of the verb being passivised. Thus, the simple past passive of "X selects him as chairman" is
He was selected chairman
So, we can see that the principal verb of your example sentence can be selected. Could it also be was?
Was and were are used with other verbs to form the past progressive or the past simple passive. They are also used with adjectives and nouns to show that the adjective or noun applied in the past, and depending on emphasis or context it might or might not still apply now. Selected can be an adjective, but it's not usually applied to a person that way. However, it can be applied to a position:
The chairman of the organisation is a selected position
He is the selected chairman
So there is the possibility of selected not being a verb here. If it were an adjective, it would be modifying chairman, rather than being a complement itself. 'Selected chairman' would become a noun phrase.
However, if that were a noun phrase, chairman would not be a mass (uncountable) noun; it is countable, and so it needs a quantifier or article. Either a or the could be appropriate, depending on circumstance, but as an example:
He was the selected chairman.
Chairman is still a noun in the situation where selected is a verb, but in that case is referring to the position as an abstract, and so it does not require an article.
In neither case is selected a complement. It is either the principal verb, or it is an adjective applied to chairman.
It is possible to make the intention of selected as a verb more explicit with one or more extra words:
He was selected as chairman
He was selected for the role of chairman
Essentially, however, how to parse this depends on context. "At the meeting, he was selected chairman" clearly has selected as the principal verb. It is describing an action that took place at the specified time. In other contexts, it may be otherwise.
add a comment |
Select is a verb. Selected is both its past participle and its simple past form. The simple past passive is formed with the past tense of to be and the simple past of the verb being passivised. Thus, the simple past passive of "X selects him as chairman" is
He was selected chairman
So, we can see that the principal verb of your example sentence can be selected. Could it also be was?
Was and were are used with other verbs to form the past progressive or the past simple passive. They are also used with adjectives and nouns to show that the adjective or noun applied in the past, and depending on emphasis or context it might or might not still apply now. Selected can be an adjective, but it's not usually applied to a person that way. However, it can be applied to a position:
The chairman of the organisation is a selected position
He is the selected chairman
So there is the possibility of selected not being a verb here. If it were an adjective, it would be modifying chairman, rather than being a complement itself. 'Selected chairman' would become a noun phrase.
However, if that were a noun phrase, chairman would not be a mass (uncountable) noun; it is countable, and so it needs a quantifier or article. Either a or the could be appropriate, depending on circumstance, but as an example:
He was the selected chairman.
Chairman is still a noun in the situation where selected is a verb, but in that case is referring to the position as an abstract, and so it does not require an article.
In neither case is selected a complement. It is either the principal verb, or it is an adjective applied to chairman.
It is possible to make the intention of selected as a verb more explicit with one or more extra words:
He was selected as chairman
He was selected for the role of chairman
Essentially, however, how to parse this depends on context. "At the meeting, he was selected chairman" clearly has selected as the principal verb. It is describing an action that took place at the specified time. In other contexts, it may be otherwise.
add a comment |
Select is a verb. Selected is both its past participle and its simple past form. The simple past passive is formed with the past tense of to be and the simple past of the verb being passivised. Thus, the simple past passive of "X selects him as chairman" is
He was selected chairman
So, we can see that the principal verb of your example sentence can be selected. Could it also be was?
Was and were are used with other verbs to form the past progressive or the past simple passive. They are also used with adjectives and nouns to show that the adjective or noun applied in the past, and depending on emphasis or context it might or might not still apply now. Selected can be an adjective, but it's not usually applied to a person that way. However, it can be applied to a position:
The chairman of the organisation is a selected position
He is the selected chairman
So there is the possibility of selected not being a verb here. If it were an adjective, it would be modifying chairman, rather than being a complement itself. 'Selected chairman' would become a noun phrase.
However, if that were a noun phrase, chairman would not be a mass (uncountable) noun; it is countable, and so it needs a quantifier or article. Either a or the could be appropriate, depending on circumstance, but as an example:
He was the selected chairman.
Chairman is still a noun in the situation where selected is a verb, but in that case is referring to the position as an abstract, and so it does not require an article.
In neither case is selected a complement. It is either the principal verb, or it is an adjective applied to chairman.
It is possible to make the intention of selected as a verb more explicit with one or more extra words:
He was selected as chairman
He was selected for the role of chairman
Essentially, however, how to parse this depends on context. "At the meeting, he was selected chairman" clearly has selected as the principal verb. It is describing an action that took place at the specified time. In other contexts, it may be otherwise.
Select is a verb. Selected is both its past participle and its simple past form. The simple past passive is formed with the past tense of to be and the simple past of the verb being passivised. Thus, the simple past passive of "X selects him as chairman" is
He was selected chairman
So, we can see that the principal verb of your example sentence can be selected. Could it also be was?
Was and were are used with other verbs to form the past progressive or the past simple passive. They are also used with adjectives and nouns to show that the adjective or noun applied in the past, and depending on emphasis or context it might or might not still apply now. Selected can be an adjective, but it's not usually applied to a person that way. However, it can be applied to a position:
The chairman of the organisation is a selected position
He is the selected chairman
So there is the possibility of selected not being a verb here. If it were an adjective, it would be modifying chairman, rather than being a complement itself. 'Selected chairman' would become a noun phrase.
However, if that were a noun phrase, chairman would not be a mass (uncountable) noun; it is countable, and so it needs a quantifier or article. Either a or the could be appropriate, depending on circumstance, but as an example:
He was the selected chairman.
Chairman is still a noun in the situation where selected is a verb, but in that case is referring to the position as an abstract, and so it does not require an article.
In neither case is selected a complement. It is either the principal verb, or it is an adjective applied to chairman.
It is possible to make the intention of selected as a verb more explicit with one or more extra words:
He was selected as chairman
He was selected for the role of chairman
Essentially, however, how to parse this depends on context. "At the meeting, he was selected chairman" clearly has selected as the principal verb. It is describing an action that took place at the specified time. In other contexts, it may be otherwise.
edited 1 hour ago
answered 2 hours ago
SamBCSamBC
5,995426
5,995426
add a comment |
add a comment |
He was selected chairman.
The verb "selected" is part of a complement.
Here, "was" is the matrix clause predicator, which has the subordinate past-participial clause "selected chairman" as its complement. Within the complement clause, "chairman" is subject complement.
Note: A matrix clause is a clause within which a subordinate clause is embedded, e.g. in "I think she said he was ill", the matrix clause is "She said he was ill" in which the subordinate clause "he was ill" is embedded.
I think that interpretation/explanation might be more useful to someone studying English as a linguist, rather than someone trying to learn to use the language. I mean, it's fascinating, and for all I know correct, but you don't hear about matrix clauses much when you're just learning a language for practical purposes.
– SamBC
1 hour ago
1
@SamBC I would say that the OP is pretty much into syntax, and hence should be aware of basic terminology like "matrix clause" (a clause that contains a subordinate clause).
– BillJ
1 hour ago
add a comment |
He was selected chairman.
The verb "selected" is part of a complement.
Here, "was" is the matrix clause predicator, which has the subordinate past-participial clause "selected chairman" as its complement. Within the complement clause, "chairman" is subject complement.
Note: A matrix clause is a clause within which a subordinate clause is embedded, e.g. in "I think she said he was ill", the matrix clause is "She said he was ill" in which the subordinate clause "he was ill" is embedded.
I think that interpretation/explanation might be more useful to someone studying English as a linguist, rather than someone trying to learn to use the language. I mean, it's fascinating, and for all I know correct, but you don't hear about matrix clauses much when you're just learning a language for practical purposes.
– SamBC
1 hour ago
1
@SamBC I would say that the OP is pretty much into syntax, and hence should be aware of basic terminology like "matrix clause" (a clause that contains a subordinate clause).
– BillJ
1 hour ago
add a comment |
He was selected chairman.
The verb "selected" is part of a complement.
Here, "was" is the matrix clause predicator, which has the subordinate past-participial clause "selected chairman" as its complement. Within the complement clause, "chairman" is subject complement.
Note: A matrix clause is a clause within which a subordinate clause is embedded, e.g. in "I think she said he was ill", the matrix clause is "She said he was ill" in which the subordinate clause "he was ill" is embedded.
He was selected chairman.
The verb "selected" is part of a complement.
Here, "was" is the matrix clause predicator, which has the subordinate past-participial clause "selected chairman" as its complement. Within the complement clause, "chairman" is subject complement.
Note: A matrix clause is a clause within which a subordinate clause is embedded, e.g. in "I think she said he was ill", the matrix clause is "She said he was ill" in which the subordinate clause "he was ill" is embedded.
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
BillJBillJ
5,7881717
5,7881717
I think that interpretation/explanation might be more useful to someone studying English as a linguist, rather than someone trying to learn to use the language. I mean, it's fascinating, and for all I know correct, but you don't hear about matrix clauses much when you're just learning a language for practical purposes.
– SamBC
1 hour ago
1
@SamBC I would say that the OP is pretty much into syntax, and hence should be aware of basic terminology like "matrix clause" (a clause that contains a subordinate clause).
– BillJ
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I think that interpretation/explanation might be more useful to someone studying English as a linguist, rather than someone trying to learn to use the language. I mean, it's fascinating, and for all I know correct, but you don't hear about matrix clauses much when you're just learning a language for practical purposes.
– SamBC
1 hour ago
1
@SamBC I would say that the OP is pretty much into syntax, and hence should be aware of basic terminology like "matrix clause" (a clause that contains a subordinate clause).
– BillJ
1 hour ago
I think that interpretation/explanation might be more useful to someone studying English as a linguist, rather than someone trying to learn to use the language. I mean, it's fascinating, and for all I know correct, but you don't hear about matrix clauses much when you're just learning a language for practical purposes.
– SamBC
1 hour ago
I think that interpretation/explanation might be more useful to someone studying English as a linguist, rather than someone trying to learn to use the language. I mean, it's fascinating, and for all I know correct, but you don't hear about matrix clauses much when you're just learning a language for practical purposes.
– SamBC
1 hour ago
1
1
@SamBC I would say that the OP is pretty much into syntax, and hence should be aware of basic terminology like "matrix clause" (a clause that contains a subordinate clause).
– BillJ
1 hour ago
@SamBC I would say that the OP is pretty much into syntax, and hence should be aware of basic terminology like "matrix clause" (a clause that contains a subordinate clause).
– BillJ
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Names are set by social conventions. If we called dogs "cats" and cats "dogs," there would be no difference in objective reality or in our understanding of objective reality.
Language about language is a set of naming conventions.
He was selected by them
and
They selected him
mean exactly the same thing. We traditionally describe the difference in form by saying that the verb in the first sentence is in the passive voice and the verb in the second sentence is in the active voice. That is, the verb in the first voice is a verbal phrase consisting of some form of the verb "be" and a perfect participle.
But, in English, participles can be used as adjectives. So we could describe English without reference to the passive voice by expanding the definition of subject complements instead. There would be nothing illogical in that. It would be just like calling dogs "cats" and cats "dogs." There are, however, two points to note.
If you call dogs "cats" and cats "dogs" and no one else does, you will not be understood by others, nor will you understand others. You are ignoring the social, extra-individual aspect of language.
Furthermore, if you sometimes call dogs "cats" and cats "dogs" and sometimes call dogs "dogs" and cats "cats," you will be apt to confuse yourself and certain to confuse others.
If we chose to describe English by dispensing with the passive voice and by expanding the definition of subject complements, it would make no sense to refer to the passive form of subject complements because "passive" would have no meaning. In the traditional grammar, we analyze
He was selected chairman
as "He" is the subject, "was selected" is a passive verb, and "chairman" is a nominal predicate, a type of subject complement.
add a comment |
Names are set by social conventions. If we called dogs "cats" and cats "dogs," there would be no difference in objective reality or in our understanding of objective reality.
Language about language is a set of naming conventions.
He was selected by them
and
They selected him
mean exactly the same thing. We traditionally describe the difference in form by saying that the verb in the first sentence is in the passive voice and the verb in the second sentence is in the active voice. That is, the verb in the first voice is a verbal phrase consisting of some form of the verb "be" and a perfect participle.
But, in English, participles can be used as adjectives. So we could describe English without reference to the passive voice by expanding the definition of subject complements instead. There would be nothing illogical in that. It would be just like calling dogs "cats" and cats "dogs." There are, however, two points to note.
If you call dogs "cats" and cats "dogs" and no one else does, you will not be understood by others, nor will you understand others. You are ignoring the social, extra-individual aspect of language.
Furthermore, if you sometimes call dogs "cats" and cats "dogs" and sometimes call dogs "dogs" and cats "cats," you will be apt to confuse yourself and certain to confuse others.
If we chose to describe English by dispensing with the passive voice and by expanding the definition of subject complements, it would make no sense to refer to the passive form of subject complements because "passive" would have no meaning. In the traditional grammar, we analyze
He was selected chairman
as "He" is the subject, "was selected" is a passive verb, and "chairman" is a nominal predicate, a type of subject complement.
add a comment |
Names are set by social conventions. If we called dogs "cats" and cats "dogs," there would be no difference in objective reality or in our understanding of objective reality.
Language about language is a set of naming conventions.
He was selected by them
and
They selected him
mean exactly the same thing. We traditionally describe the difference in form by saying that the verb in the first sentence is in the passive voice and the verb in the second sentence is in the active voice. That is, the verb in the first voice is a verbal phrase consisting of some form of the verb "be" and a perfect participle.
But, in English, participles can be used as adjectives. So we could describe English without reference to the passive voice by expanding the definition of subject complements instead. There would be nothing illogical in that. It would be just like calling dogs "cats" and cats "dogs." There are, however, two points to note.
If you call dogs "cats" and cats "dogs" and no one else does, you will not be understood by others, nor will you understand others. You are ignoring the social, extra-individual aspect of language.
Furthermore, if you sometimes call dogs "cats" and cats "dogs" and sometimes call dogs "dogs" and cats "cats," you will be apt to confuse yourself and certain to confuse others.
If we chose to describe English by dispensing with the passive voice and by expanding the definition of subject complements, it would make no sense to refer to the passive form of subject complements because "passive" would have no meaning. In the traditional grammar, we analyze
He was selected chairman
as "He" is the subject, "was selected" is a passive verb, and "chairman" is a nominal predicate, a type of subject complement.
Names are set by social conventions. If we called dogs "cats" and cats "dogs," there would be no difference in objective reality or in our understanding of objective reality.
Language about language is a set of naming conventions.
He was selected by them
and
They selected him
mean exactly the same thing. We traditionally describe the difference in form by saying that the verb in the first sentence is in the passive voice and the verb in the second sentence is in the active voice. That is, the verb in the first voice is a verbal phrase consisting of some form of the verb "be" and a perfect participle.
But, in English, participles can be used as adjectives. So we could describe English without reference to the passive voice by expanding the definition of subject complements instead. There would be nothing illogical in that. It would be just like calling dogs "cats" and cats "dogs." There are, however, two points to note.
If you call dogs "cats" and cats "dogs" and no one else does, you will not be understood by others, nor will you understand others. You are ignoring the social, extra-individual aspect of language.
Furthermore, if you sometimes call dogs "cats" and cats "dogs" and sometimes call dogs "dogs" and cats "cats," you will be apt to confuse yourself and certain to confuse others.
If we chose to describe English by dispensing with the passive voice and by expanding the definition of subject complements, it would make no sense to refer to the passive form of subject complements because "passive" would have no meaning. In the traditional grammar, we analyze
He was selected chairman
as "He" is the subject, "was selected" is a passive verb, and "chairman" is a nominal predicate, a type of subject complement.
answered 49 mins ago
Jeff MorrowJeff Morrow
11.1k1126
11.1k1126
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Welcome to the English Language Learners StackExchange! Thank you for setting out your question clearly with your thoughts on the matter and being specific about what you are trying to understand.
– SamBC
2 hours ago
He was selected [x] is a passive construction. We selected him as the winner. He was selected the winner [by us].
– Lambie
1 hour ago