How do I narratively explain how in-game circumstances do not mechanically allow a PC to instantly kill an...
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How do I narratively explain how in-game circumstances do not mechanically allow a PC to instantly kill an NPC?
Aiming at specific body partsHow can I handle players killing my NPC outside of combat?How can I explain the lack of characters' in-game knowledge?How would giving elves flavorful resistance to nonmagical weapons not made of iron or steel change the game balance?My DM has removed heavy armour from the game. How can I make a Paladin work or convince him not to do this?
$begingroup$
Inspired by this question, in particular this aspect:
. . . how do I handle realism and one-shotting bosses out of combat?
My understanding is that any creature, even a "normal person", cannot be instantly killed with a single attack (either lowercase or uppercase) bypassing HP and damage mechanics.
What I'm wondering is how to narratively handle a situation in which—outside of combat—a PC attempts a called shot for lethality on a creature that logically would be vulnerable to it, beyond telling the player "no you cannot do this" or "your hand slips for some reason".
In combat, aiming at specific body parts can be narrated away by saying the creature happened to redirect a targeted blow to a less critical body region, and this explanation is aided by the fact that AC and HP are abstractions of how difficult a creature is to hit and kill, respectively.
But if an NPC's movement is fully restricted with the neck exposed, how might I as the DM respond to a player wanting to slit the NPC's throat in a way that prevents his/her desired result from taking place when rules don't support it, but still narrating the attempt?
dnd-5e narration
edited 4 mins ago
V2Blast
23.2k374146
asked 51 mins ago
Michael LiuMichael Liu
40138
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Inspired by this question, in particular this aspect:
. . . how do I handle realism and one-shotting bosses out of combat?
My understanding is that any creature, even a "normal person", cannot be instantly killed with a single attack (either lowercase or uppercase) bypassing HP and damage mechanics.
What I'm wondering is how to narratively handle a situation in which—outside of combat—a PC attempts a called shot for lethality on a creature that logically would be vulnerable to it, beyond telling the player "no you cannot do this" or "your hand slips for some reason".
In combat, aiming at specific body parts can be narrated away by saying the creature happened to redirect a targeted blow to a less critical body region, and this explanation is aided by the fact that AC and HP are abstractions of how difficult a creature is to hit and kill, respectively.
But if an NPC's movement is fully restricted with the neck exposed, how might I as the DM respond to a player wanting to slit the NPC's throat in a way that prevents his/her desired result from taking place when rules don't support it, but still narrating the attempt?
dnd-5e narration
edited 4 mins ago
V2Blast
23.2k374146
asked 51 mins ago
Michael LiuMichael Liu
40138
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Note to answerers: Please support your answers as required by our policy to Back it Up. Specifically, this question would be well-suited for answers to use times they have used or seen a technique used successfully at a table. Don't write speculative answers that are just spitballing ideas that might work.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
47 mins ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch For the sake of discussion I would say yes, though less of a need and more of a preference. If a desired action is physically impossible, it's a DM-to-player "no". If the desired action is physically possible but mechanically forbidden, I personally would like—at the least—an explanation in the spirit of realism, particularly so that players do not feel that there are inexplicable game rules restricting their agency "just because".
$endgroup$
– Michael Liu
40 mins ago
$begingroup$
In this case, why is the NPC unable to be killed? Is it just because the NPC is important, or is it because the NPC is harder to kill than a normal person?
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
19 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Bloodcinder My understanding is that any creature, even a "normal person" cannot be instantly killed with a single attack (either lowercase or uppercase) bypassing HP and damage mechanics.
$endgroup$
– Michael Liu
13 mins ago
$begingroup$
Oh, okay. So your problem is that there seems to be a disconnect between the rules (which basically don't allow anybody to be killed instantly) and the narrative (in which the person apparently could be killed instantly). Is that accurate? Due to the link to the other question and mentioning bosses, I assumed you were talking about a "plot armor" situation.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
6 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Inspired by this question, in particular this aspect:
. . . how do I handle realism and one-shotting bosses out of combat?
My understanding is that any creature, even a "normal person", cannot be instantly killed with a single attack (either lowercase or uppercase) bypassing HP and damage mechanics.
What I'm wondering is how to narratively handle a situation in which—outside of combat—a PC attempts a called shot for lethality on a creature that logically would be vulnerable to it, beyond telling the player "no you cannot do this" or "your hand slips for some reason".
In combat, aiming at specific body parts can be narrated away by saying the creature happened to redirect a targeted blow to a less critical body region, and this explanation is aided by the fact that AC and HP are abstractions of how difficult a creature is to hit and kill, respectively.
But if an NPC's movement is fully restricted with the neck exposed, how might I as the DM respond to a player wanting to slit the NPC's throat in a way that prevents his/her desired result from taking place when rules don't support it, but still narrating the attempt?
dnd-5e narration
edited 4 mins ago
V2Blast
23.2k374146
asked 51 mins ago
Michael LiuMichael Liu
40138
$endgroup$
Inspired by this question, in particular this aspect:
. . . how do I handle realism and one-shotting bosses out of combat?
My understanding is that any creature, even a "normal person", cannot be instantly killed with a single attack (either lowercase or uppercase) bypassing HP and damage mechanics.
What I'm wondering is how to narratively handle a situation in which—outside of combat—a PC attempts a called shot for lethality on a creature that logically would be vulnerable to it, beyond telling the player "no you cannot do this" or "your hand slips for some reason".
In combat, aiming at specific body parts can be narrated away by saying the creature happened to redirect a targeted blow to a less critical body region, and this explanation is aided by the fact that AC and HP are abstractions of how difficult a creature is to hit and kill, respectively.
But if an NPC's movement is fully restricted with the neck exposed, how might I as the DM respond to a player wanting to slit the NPC's throat in a way that prevents his/her desired result from taking place when rules don't support it, but still narrating the attempt?
dnd-5e narration
dnd-5e narration
edited 4 mins ago
V2Blast
23.2k374146
asked 51 mins ago
Michael LiuMichael Liu
40138
edited 4 mins ago
V2Blast
23.2k374146
asked 51 mins ago
Michael LiuMichael Liu
40138
edited 4 mins ago
V2Blast
23.2k374146
edited 4 mins ago
V2Blast
23.2k374146
edited 4 mins ago
V2Blast
23.2k374146
23.2k374146
asked 51 mins ago
Michael LiuMichael Liu
40138
asked 51 mins ago
Michael LiuMichael Liu
40138
asked 51 mins ago
Michael LiuMichael Liu
40138
40138
2
$begingroup$
Note to answerers: Please support your answers as required by our policy to Back it Up. Specifically, this question would be well-suited for answers to use times they have used or seen a technique used successfully at a table. Don't write speculative answers that are just spitballing ideas that might work.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
47 mins ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch For the sake of discussion I would say yes, though less of a need and more of a preference. If a desired action is physically impossible, it's a DM-to-player "no". If the desired action is physically possible but mechanically forbidden, I personally would like—at the least—an explanation in the spirit of realism, particularly so that players do not feel that there are inexplicable game rules restricting their agency "just because".
$endgroup$
– Michael Liu
40 mins ago
$begingroup$
In this case, why is the NPC unable to be killed? Is it just because the NPC is important, or is it because the NPC is harder to kill than a normal person?
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
19 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Bloodcinder My understanding is that any creature, even a "normal person" cannot be instantly killed with a single attack (either lowercase or uppercase) bypassing HP and damage mechanics.
$endgroup$
– Michael Liu
13 mins ago
$begingroup$
Oh, okay. So your problem is that there seems to be a disconnect between the rules (which basically don't allow anybody to be killed instantly) and the narrative (in which the person apparently could be killed instantly). Is that accurate? Due to the link to the other question and mentioning bosses, I assumed you were talking about a "plot armor" situation.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
6 mins ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Note to answerers: Please support your answers as required by our policy to Back it Up. Specifically, this question would be well-suited for answers to use times they have used or seen a technique used successfully at a table. Don't write speculative answers that are just spitballing ideas that might work.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
47 mins ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch For the sake of discussion I would say yes, though less of a need and more of a preference. If a desired action is physically impossible, it's a DM-to-player "no". If the desired action is physically possible but mechanically forbidden, I personally would like—at the least—an explanation in the spirit of realism, particularly so that players do not feel that there are inexplicable game rules restricting their agency "just because".
$endgroup$
– Michael Liu
40 mins ago
$begingroup$
In this case, why is the NPC unable to be killed? Is it just because the NPC is important, or is it because the NPC is harder to kill than a normal person?
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
19 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Bloodcinder My understanding is that any creature, even a "normal person" cannot be instantly killed with a single attack (either lowercase or uppercase) bypassing HP and damage mechanics.
$endgroup$
– Michael Liu
13 mins ago
$begingroup$
Oh, okay. So your problem is that there seems to be a disconnect between the rules (which basically don't allow anybody to be killed instantly) and the narrative (in which the person apparently could be killed instantly). Is that accurate? Due to the link to the other question and mentioning bosses, I assumed you were talking about a "plot armor" situation.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
6 mins ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Note to answerers: Please support your answers as required by our policy to Back it Up. Specifically, this question would be well-suited for answers to use times they have used or seen a technique used successfully at a table. Don't write speculative answers that are just spitballing ideas that might work.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
47 mins ago
$begingroup$
Note to answerers: Please support your answers as required by our policy to Back it Up. Specifically, this question would be well-suited for answers to use times they have used or seen a technique used successfully at a table. Don't write speculative answers that are just spitballing ideas that might work.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
47 mins ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch For the sake of discussion I would say yes, though less of a need and more of a preference. If a desired action is physically impossible, it's a DM-to-player "no". If the desired action is physically possible but mechanically forbidden, I personally would like—at the least—an explanation in the spirit of realism, particularly so that players do not feel that there are inexplicable game rules restricting their agency "just because".
$endgroup$
– Michael Liu
40 mins ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch For the sake of discussion I would say yes, though less of a need and more of a preference. If a desired action is physically impossible, it's a DM-to-player "no". If the desired action is physically possible but mechanically forbidden, I personally would like—at the least—an explanation in the spirit of realism, particularly so that players do not feel that there are inexplicable game rules restricting their agency "just because".
$endgroup$
– Michael Liu
40 mins ago
$begingroup$
In this case, why is the NPC unable to be killed? Is it just because the NPC is important, or is it because the NPC is harder to kill than a normal person?
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
19 mins ago
$begingroup$
In this case, why is the NPC unable to be killed? Is it just because the NPC is important, or is it because the NPC is harder to kill than a normal person?
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
19 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Bloodcinder My understanding is that any creature, even a "normal person" cannot be instantly killed with a single attack (either lowercase or uppercase) bypassing HP and damage mechanics.
$endgroup$
– Michael Liu
13 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Bloodcinder My understanding is that any creature, even a "normal person" cannot be instantly killed with a single attack (either lowercase or uppercase) bypassing HP and damage mechanics.
$endgroup$
– Michael Liu
13 mins ago
$begingroup$
Oh, okay. So your problem is that there seems to be a disconnect between the rules (which basically don't allow anybody to be killed instantly) and the narrative (in which the person apparently could be killed instantly). Is that accurate? Due to the link to the other question and mentioning bosses, I assumed you were talking about a "plot armor" situation.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
6 mins ago
$begingroup$
Oh, okay. So your problem is that there seems to be a disconnect between the rules (which basically don't allow anybody to be killed instantly) and the narrative (in which the person apparently could be killed instantly). Is that accurate? Due to the link to the other question and mentioning bosses, I assumed you were talking about a "plot armor" situation.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
6 mins ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
If the only reason why the NPC "wouldn't die" is that, mechanically, you can't deal enough damage with a knife to kill him - just ignore the mechanics.
The rules on hit points, damage etc. are meant for combat. If an NPC is entirely helpless, and an (N)PC wants to slit the throat of the NPC, let them.
The rules are just a tool - if, rules-wise, you would have to slit someone's through 15 times until he dies, then the problem are the rules, not the fact that someone's throat was slit.
answered 46 mins ago
PixelMasterPixelMaster
10.4k237103
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I like this answer, but I feel that "combat mechanics are for combat" could be clearer.
$endgroup$
– goodguy5
43 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
So you'd also allow a restrained PC to be killed in one hit by someone with a knife?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
40 mins ago
4
$begingroup$
It'd probably help to cite the relevant rules/guidelines around "don't ask for a roll if there's no real risk of/cost to failure" here - if the target is entirely helpless, and you're capable of hurting the target, then given enough time (and nothing stopping you from continuing to hurt them, such as a time constraint) you'll be able to kill them.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
39 mins ago
$begingroup$
I also think arguably, for the specific example I provided, an NPC may be allowed ability checks to break free from restraints, putting a time cost on repeated strikes.
$endgroup$
– Michael Liu
36 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose "So you'd also allow a restrained PC to be killed in one hit by someone with a knife?" If it makes sense. In fact that's pretty much what happened to my first tabletop character during my only dive into AD&D (back in 2e).
$endgroup$
– vicky_molokh
28 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Rules are rules
What you're ultimately asking is how to narratively explain game rules. That's a bit tricky at any level and it may be a sign of an immersion problem. Understanding that there are game rules and having to play by them seems to be a bigger table concern. If players are constantly asking "why is this the rule", then they are having trouble immersing themselves into the system with the given constraints (or they want to try and bypass those constraints.)
You shouldn't have to explain why the rules are the rules. You should just be letting folks know there are rules and judging how to apply those rules to any given situation.
The case of autohit/autodeath
In this case, narratively you could just say that the creature was squirming and is still difficult to kill. Even a paralyzed creature isn't autokilled or even autohit. Hits are crits within 5', but that isn't an autokill. Even the Rogue Assassin's Assasinate feature doesn't actually assassinate.
Attacking is combat, and combat is generally done within initiative. And it may not be the target that causing the miss...a natural 1 is still always a miss and the attacker could simply have...fumbled.
answered 22 mins ago
NautArchNautArch
56.7k8200377
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Based on a comment in PixelMaster's answer, you said:
I also think arguably, for the specific example I provided, an NPC may be allowed ability checks to break free from restraints, putting a time cost on repeated strikes.
This is narrative reason for calling an attack roll in itself. If the NPC is struggling, then hitting the vitals becomes non-trivial. Then, when the PCs are unable to one-shot the enemy, you can say that the player's attacks cut deep, but missed the target's vitals.
answered 20 mins ago
Nicolas BudigNicolas Budig
67036
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
If the only reason why the NPC "wouldn't die" is that, mechanically, you can't deal enough damage with a knife to kill him - just ignore the mechanics.
The rules on hit points, damage etc. are meant for combat. If an NPC is entirely helpless, and an (N)PC wants to slit the throat of the NPC, let them.
The rules are just a tool - if, rules-wise, you would have to slit someone's through 15 times until he dies, then the problem are the rules, not the fact that someone's throat was slit.
answered 46 mins ago
PixelMasterPixelMaster
10.4k237103
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I like this answer, but I feel that "combat mechanics are for combat" could be clearer.
$endgroup$
– goodguy5
43 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
So you'd also allow a restrained PC to be killed in one hit by someone with a knife?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
40 mins ago
4
$begingroup$
It'd probably help to cite the relevant rules/guidelines around "don't ask for a roll if there's no real risk of/cost to failure" here - if the target is entirely helpless, and you're capable of hurting the target, then given enough time (and nothing stopping you from continuing to hurt them, such as a time constraint) you'll be able to kill them.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
39 mins ago
$begingroup$
I also think arguably, for the specific example I provided, an NPC may be allowed ability checks to break free from restraints, putting a time cost on repeated strikes.
$endgroup$
– Michael Liu
36 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose "So you'd also allow a restrained PC to be killed in one hit by someone with a knife?" If it makes sense. In fact that's pretty much what happened to my first tabletop character during my only dive into AD&D (back in 2e).
$endgroup$
– vicky_molokh
28 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
If the only reason why the NPC "wouldn't die" is that, mechanically, you can't deal enough damage with a knife to kill him - just ignore the mechanics.
The rules on hit points, damage etc. are meant for combat. If an NPC is entirely helpless, and an (N)PC wants to slit the throat of the NPC, let them.
The rules are just a tool - if, rules-wise, you would have to slit someone's through 15 times until he dies, then the problem are the rules, not the fact that someone's throat was slit.
answered 46 mins ago
PixelMasterPixelMaster
10.4k237103
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I like this answer, but I feel that "combat mechanics are for combat" could be clearer.
$endgroup$
– goodguy5
43 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
So you'd also allow a restrained PC to be killed in one hit by someone with a knife?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
40 mins ago
4
$begingroup$
It'd probably help to cite the relevant rules/guidelines around "don't ask for a roll if there's no real risk of/cost to failure" here - if the target is entirely helpless, and you're capable of hurting the target, then given enough time (and nothing stopping you from continuing to hurt them, such as a time constraint) you'll be able to kill them.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
39 mins ago
$begingroup$
I also think arguably, for the specific example I provided, an NPC may be allowed ability checks to break free from restraints, putting a time cost on repeated strikes.
$endgroup$
– Michael Liu
36 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose "So you'd also allow a restrained PC to be killed in one hit by someone with a knife?" If it makes sense. In fact that's pretty much what happened to my first tabletop character during my only dive into AD&D (back in 2e).
$endgroup$
– vicky_molokh
28 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
If the only reason why the NPC "wouldn't die" is that, mechanically, you can't deal enough damage with a knife to kill him - just ignore the mechanics.
The rules on hit points, damage etc. are meant for combat. If an NPC is entirely helpless, and an (N)PC wants to slit the throat of the NPC, let them.
The rules are just a tool - if, rules-wise, you would have to slit someone's through 15 times until he dies, then the problem are the rules, not the fact that someone's throat was slit.
answered 46 mins ago
PixelMasterPixelMaster
10.4k237103
$endgroup$
If the only reason why the NPC "wouldn't die" is that, mechanically, you can't deal enough damage with a knife to kill him - just ignore the mechanics.
The rules on hit points, damage etc. are meant for combat. If an NPC is entirely helpless, and an (N)PC wants to slit the throat of the NPC, let them.
The rules are just a tool - if, rules-wise, you would have to slit someone's through 15 times until he dies, then the problem are the rules, not the fact that someone's throat was slit.
answered 46 mins ago
PixelMasterPixelMaster
10.4k237103
answered 46 mins ago
PixelMasterPixelMaster
10.4k237103
answered 46 mins ago
PixelMasterPixelMaster
10.4k237103
answered 46 mins ago
PixelMasterPixelMaster
10.4k237103
10.4k237103
$begingroup$
I like this answer, but I feel that "combat mechanics are for combat" could be clearer.
$endgroup$
– goodguy5
43 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
So you'd also allow a restrained PC to be killed in one hit by someone with a knife?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
40 mins ago
4
$begingroup$
It'd probably help to cite the relevant rules/guidelines around "don't ask for a roll if there's no real risk of/cost to failure" here - if the target is entirely helpless, and you're capable of hurting the target, then given enough time (and nothing stopping you from continuing to hurt them, such as a time constraint) you'll be able to kill them.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
39 mins ago
$begingroup$
I also think arguably, for the specific example I provided, an NPC may be allowed ability checks to break free from restraints, putting a time cost on repeated strikes.
$endgroup$
– Michael Liu
36 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose "So you'd also allow a restrained PC to be killed in one hit by someone with a knife?" If it makes sense. In fact that's pretty much what happened to my first tabletop character during my only dive into AD&D (back in 2e).
$endgroup$
– vicky_molokh
28 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
I like this answer, but I feel that "combat mechanics are for combat" could be clearer.
$endgroup$
– goodguy5
43 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
So you'd also allow a restrained PC to be killed in one hit by someone with a knife?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
40 mins ago
4
$begingroup$
It'd probably help to cite the relevant rules/guidelines around "don't ask for a roll if there's no real risk of/cost to failure" here - if the target is entirely helpless, and you're capable of hurting the target, then given enough time (and nothing stopping you from continuing to hurt them, such as a time constraint) you'll be able to kill them.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
39 mins ago
$begingroup$
I also think arguably, for the specific example I provided, an NPC may be allowed ability checks to break free from restraints, putting a time cost on repeated strikes.
$endgroup$
– Michael Liu
36 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose "So you'd also allow a restrained PC to be killed in one hit by someone with a knife?" If it makes sense. In fact that's pretty much what happened to my first tabletop character during my only dive into AD&D (back in 2e).
$endgroup$
– vicky_molokh
28 mins ago
$begingroup$
I like this answer, but I feel that "combat mechanics are for combat" could be clearer.
$endgroup$
– goodguy5
43 mins ago
$begingroup$
I like this answer, but I feel that "combat mechanics are for combat" could be clearer.
$endgroup$
– goodguy5
43 mins ago
1
1
$begingroup$
So you'd also allow a restrained PC to be killed in one hit by someone with a knife?
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– Rubiksmoose
40 mins ago
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So you'd also allow a restrained PC to be killed in one hit by someone with a knife?
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– Rubiksmoose
40 mins ago
4
4
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It'd probably help to cite the relevant rules/guidelines around "don't ask for a roll if there's no real risk of/cost to failure" here - if the target is entirely helpless, and you're capable of hurting the target, then given enough time (and nothing stopping you from continuing to hurt them, such as a time constraint) you'll be able to kill them.
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– V2Blast
39 mins ago
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It'd probably help to cite the relevant rules/guidelines around "don't ask for a roll if there's no real risk of/cost to failure" here - if the target is entirely helpless, and you're capable of hurting the target, then given enough time (and nothing stopping you from continuing to hurt them, such as a time constraint) you'll be able to kill them.
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– V2Blast
39 mins ago
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I also think arguably, for the specific example I provided, an NPC may be allowed ability checks to break free from restraints, putting a time cost on repeated strikes.
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– Michael Liu
36 mins ago
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I also think arguably, for the specific example I provided, an NPC may be allowed ability checks to break free from restraints, putting a time cost on repeated strikes.
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– Michael Liu
36 mins ago
1
1
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@Rubiksmoose "So you'd also allow a restrained PC to be killed in one hit by someone with a knife?" If it makes sense. In fact that's pretty much what happened to my first tabletop character during my only dive into AD&D (back in 2e).
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– vicky_molokh
28 mins ago
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@Rubiksmoose "So you'd also allow a restrained PC to be killed in one hit by someone with a knife?" If it makes sense. In fact that's pretty much what happened to my first tabletop character during my only dive into AD&D (back in 2e).
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– vicky_molokh
28 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
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Rules are rules
What you're ultimately asking is how to narratively explain game rules. That's a bit tricky at any level and it may be a sign of an immersion problem. Understanding that there are game rules and having to play by them seems to be a bigger table concern. If players are constantly asking "why is this the rule", then they are having trouble immersing themselves into the system with the given constraints (or they want to try and bypass those constraints.)
You shouldn't have to explain why the rules are the rules. You should just be letting folks know there are rules and judging how to apply those rules to any given situation.
The case of autohit/autodeath
In this case, narratively you could just say that the creature was squirming and is still difficult to kill. Even a paralyzed creature isn't autokilled or even autohit. Hits are crits within 5', but that isn't an autokill. Even the Rogue Assassin's Assasinate feature doesn't actually assassinate.
Attacking is combat, and combat is generally done within initiative. And it may not be the target that causing the miss...a natural 1 is still always a miss and the attacker could simply have...fumbled.
answered 22 mins ago
NautArchNautArch
56.7k8200377
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Rules are rules
What you're ultimately asking is how to narratively explain game rules. That's a bit tricky at any level and it may be a sign of an immersion problem. Understanding that there are game rules and having to play by them seems to be a bigger table concern. If players are constantly asking "why is this the rule", then they are having trouble immersing themselves into the system with the given constraints (or they want to try and bypass those constraints.)
You shouldn't have to explain why the rules are the rules. You should just be letting folks know there are rules and judging how to apply those rules to any given situation.
The case of autohit/autodeath
In this case, narratively you could just say that the creature was squirming and is still difficult to kill. Even a paralyzed creature isn't autokilled or even autohit. Hits are crits within 5', but that isn't an autokill. Even the Rogue Assassin's Assasinate feature doesn't actually assassinate.
Attacking is combat, and combat is generally done within initiative. And it may not be the target that causing the miss...a natural 1 is still always a miss and the attacker could simply have...fumbled.
answered 22 mins ago
NautArchNautArch
56.7k8200377
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Rules are rules
What you're ultimately asking is how to narratively explain game rules. That's a bit tricky at any level and it may be a sign of an immersion problem. Understanding that there are game rules and having to play by them seems to be a bigger table concern. If players are constantly asking "why is this the rule", then they are having trouble immersing themselves into the system with the given constraints (or they want to try and bypass those constraints.)
You shouldn't have to explain why the rules are the rules. You should just be letting folks know there are rules and judging how to apply those rules to any given situation.
The case of autohit/autodeath
In this case, narratively you could just say that the creature was squirming and is still difficult to kill. Even a paralyzed creature isn't autokilled or even autohit. Hits are crits within 5', but that isn't an autokill. Even the Rogue Assassin's Assasinate feature doesn't actually assassinate.
Attacking is combat, and combat is generally done within initiative. And it may not be the target that causing the miss...a natural 1 is still always a miss and the attacker could simply have...fumbled.
answered 22 mins ago
NautArchNautArch
56.7k8200377
$endgroup$
Rules are rules
What you're ultimately asking is how to narratively explain game rules. That's a bit tricky at any level and it may be a sign of an immersion problem. Understanding that there are game rules and having to play by them seems to be a bigger table concern. If players are constantly asking "why is this the rule", then they are having trouble immersing themselves into the system with the given constraints (or they want to try and bypass those constraints.)
You shouldn't have to explain why the rules are the rules. You should just be letting folks know there are rules and judging how to apply those rules to any given situation.
The case of autohit/autodeath
In this case, narratively you could just say that the creature was squirming and is still difficult to kill. Even a paralyzed creature isn't autokilled or even autohit. Hits are crits within 5', but that isn't an autokill. Even the Rogue Assassin's Assasinate feature doesn't actually assassinate.
Attacking is combat, and combat is generally done within initiative. And it may not be the target that causing the miss...a natural 1 is still always a miss and the attacker could simply have...fumbled.
answered 22 mins ago
NautArchNautArch
56.7k8200377
edited 8 mins ago
answered 22 mins ago
NautArchNautArch
56.7k8200377
answered 22 mins ago
NautArchNautArch
56.7k8200377
answered 22 mins ago
NautArchNautArch
56.7k8200377
56.7k8200377
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Based on a comment in PixelMaster's answer, you said:
I also think arguably, for the specific example I provided, an NPC may be allowed ability checks to break free from restraints, putting a time cost on repeated strikes.
This is narrative reason for calling an attack roll in itself. If the NPC is struggling, then hitting the vitals becomes non-trivial. Then, when the PCs are unable to one-shot the enemy, you can say that the player's attacks cut deep, but missed the target's vitals.
answered 20 mins ago
Nicolas BudigNicolas Budig
67036
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Based on a comment in PixelMaster's answer, you said:
I also think arguably, for the specific example I provided, an NPC may be allowed ability checks to break free from restraints, putting a time cost on repeated strikes.
This is narrative reason for calling an attack roll in itself. If the NPC is struggling, then hitting the vitals becomes non-trivial. Then, when the PCs are unable to one-shot the enemy, you can say that the player's attacks cut deep, but missed the target's vitals.
answered 20 mins ago
Nicolas BudigNicolas Budig
67036
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Based on a comment in PixelMaster's answer, you said:
I also think arguably, for the specific example I provided, an NPC may be allowed ability checks to break free from restraints, putting a time cost on repeated strikes.
This is narrative reason for calling an attack roll in itself. If the NPC is struggling, then hitting the vitals becomes non-trivial. Then, when the PCs are unable to one-shot the enemy, you can say that the player's attacks cut deep, but missed the target's vitals.
answered 20 mins ago
Nicolas BudigNicolas Budig
67036
$endgroup$
Based on a comment in PixelMaster's answer, you said:
I also think arguably, for the specific example I provided, an NPC may be allowed ability checks to break free from restraints, putting a time cost on repeated strikes.
This is narrative reason for calling an attack roll in itself. If the NPC is struggling, then hitting the vitals becomes non-trivial. Then, when the PCs are unable to one-shot the enemy, you can say that the player's attacks cut deep, but missed the target's vitals.
answered 20 mins ago
Nicolas BudigNicolas Budig
67036
answered 20 mins ago
Nicolas BudigNicolas Budig
67036
answered 20 mins ago
Nicolas BudigNicolas Budig
67036
answered 20 mins ago
Nicolas BudigNicolas Budig
67036
67036
add a comment |
add a comment |
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Note to answerers: Please support your answers as required by our policy to Back it Up. Specifically, this question would be well-suited for answers to use times they have used or seen a technique used successfully at a table. Don't write speculative answers that are just spitballing ideas that might work.
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– Rubiksmoose
47 mins ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch For the sake of discussion I would say yes, though less of a need and more of a preference. If a desired action is physically impossible, it's a DM-to-player "no". If the desired action is physically possible but mechanically forbidden, I personally would like—at the least—an explanation in the spirit of realism, particularly so that players do not feel that there are inexplicable game rules restricting their agency "just because".
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– Michael Liu
40 mins ago
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In this case, why is the NPC unable to be killed? Is it just because the NPC is important, or is it because the NPC is harder to kill than a normal person?
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– Bloodcinder
19 mins ago
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@Bloodcinder My understanding is that any creature, even a "normal person" cannot be instantly killed with a single attack (either lowercase or uppercase) bypassing HP and damage mechanics.
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– Michael Liu
13 mins ago
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Oh, okay. So your problem is that there seems to be a disconnect between the rules (which basically don't allow anybody to be killed instantly) and the narrative (in which the person apparently could be killed instantly). Is that accurate? Due to the link to the other question and mentioning bosses, I assumed you were talking about a "plot armor" situation.
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– Bloodcinder
6 mins ago